Reef Central Online Community

Home Forum Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences View New Posts View Today's Posts

Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Search Reefkeeping ...an online magazine for marine aquarists Support our sponsors and mention Reef Central

Go Back   Reef Central Online Community > Sponsor Forums > Neptune Systems
Register Blogs FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read

Notices

User Tag List

Reply
Thread Tools
Old 02/22/2018, 03:14 PM   #1
Dr RBG
Registered Member
 
Dr RBG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: New England
Posts: 133
Apex Salinity Probe Calibration

Probe is about 6 months old. Used Milwaukee digital electronic Salinity refractometer. The values are a few numbers off. Can I just manually set the Apex probe to match the Milwaukee?


Dr RBG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03/09/2018, 09:32 AM   #2
tmccaffery
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 132
Did you get answer?


tmccaffery is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03/09/2018, 02:39 PM   #3
Dr RBG
Registered Member
 
Dr RBG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: New England
Posts: 133
not really You follow the initial set up as if it was new with a Neptune Systems
CONDUCTIVITY CALIBRATION SOLUTION - 53.0 MICROSIEMENS


Dr RBG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03/09/2018, 03:22 PM   #4
DivingTheWorld
Registered Member
 
DivingTheWorld's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: San Ramon, CA
Posts: 1,587
The only way I've been able to get mine to calibrate is to verify the tank water is exactly 53000, and then calibrate with my probe in the tank, not solution.


__________________
Current Tank Info: LeeMar Rimless (40x24x22), ATI 8x39 Dimmable w/Reefbrite Tech, 2x Vortech MP40w QD w/ Battery Backup, Apex Gold, Trigger Systems Ruby30S, Reef Octopus POV-DC1 w/Auto Waste Collector
DivingTheWorld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03/09/2018, 04:43 PM   #5
Dr RBG
Registered Member
 
Dr RBG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: New England
Posts: 133
53 Microsiemens should equal 33.9 ppm so if you use tank water at that conc about 34ppm it should be the same. I am going to try this tomorrow and will post the result


Dr RBG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03/09/2018, 07:34 PM   #6
DivingTheWorld
Registered Member
 
DivingTheWorld's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: San Ramon, CA
Posts: 1,587
I like this calculator which I've found to be accurate. It calculates it as 34.95 or 1.0263.

https://www.hamzasreef.com/Contents/...Conversion.php


__________________
Current Tank Info: LeeMar Rimless (40x24x22), ATI 8x39 Dimmable w/Reefbrite Tech, 2x Vortech MP40w QD w/ Battery Backup, Apex Gold, Trigger Systems Ruby30S, Reef Octopus POV-DC1 w/Auto Waste Collector
DivingTheWorld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03/10/2018, 03:08 AM   #7
windlasher
Registered Member
 
windlasher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 434
Quote:
Originally Posted by DivingTheWorld View Post
The only way I've been able to get mine to calibrate is to verify the tank water is exactly 53000, and then calibrate with my probe in the tank, not solution.
How did you do that? Just got my Apex and it seems like this is a major problem for a lot of people. Neptune support has been less than helpful. After two days and trying lots of things, my dashboard still shows Salinity around 1.2 or 1.6. I thinK I may have gotten a bad probe.

My refractometer shows 1024 and I'd be happy if I could just tell the apex to use that measurement. Bit of a pain after spending $800 if you ask me. Appreciate any help.


__________________
---
Every time someone guesses my password, I have to change my dog's name. He's starting to get a twitch.
---
windlasher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03/10/2018, 06:50 AM   #8
Optionman
Registered Member
 
Optionman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: NJ
Posts: 836
I long ago gave up caring what the apex salinity probe reported. Iíve recalibrated a few times. Get yourself a reliable refractometer or digital devise and move on. I settled on the Pinpoint probe. Good luck.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Optionman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03/10/2018, 08:07 AM   #9
Dr RBG
Registered Member
 
Dr RBG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: New England
Posts: 133
this video makes some interesting points about the trapped air in the probe tip as a problem and also starting with a really dry probe,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pxUb2-LaEo The guy seems to have info others have not given.


Dr RBG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03/10/2018, 09:45 AM   #10
windlasher
Registered Member
 
windlasher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 434
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr RBG View Post
this video makes some interesting points about the trapped air in the probe tip as a problem and also starting with a really dry probe,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pxUb2-LaEo The guy seems to have info others have not given.
I actually saw that one and tried his method. No Luck. I even bought new solution from BRS and completely submerged the bottle in the sump upside down. My dashboard reads 1.6 salinity. I'm starting to think the probe I received is broken. I may buy another one to test it, at least then if it works, I can convince Neptune to replace it and I'll have a spare for the new tank I am setting up. Another $50. Short of that, I would have to return the whole thing for an exchange which would be a pain.

I just think it's ridiculous that this $800 device makes it so difficult to calibrate. At the very least, they could alter its programming to allow us to "tell the probe" what the tank is at and then let it work from there. Might not be perfect but it would at the very least let us hit the ground running without spending days troubleshooting. What's more, they say you need to re-calibrate it every few months. I don't have time for that. Isn't the point not having to spend so much time on maintaining your tank the reason we buy these things?


__________________
---
Every time someone guesses my password, I have to change my dog's name. He's starting to get a twitch.
---
windlasher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03/10/2018, 10:01 AM   #11
DivingTheWorld
Registered Member
 
DivingTheWorld's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: San Ramon, CA
Posts: 1,587
Quote:
Originally Posted by windlasher View Post
How did you do that? Just got my Apex and it seems like this is a major problem for a lot of people. Neptune support has been less than helpful. After two days and trying lots of things, my dashboard still shows Salinity around 1.2 or 1.6. I thinK I may have gotten a bad probe.

My refractometer shows 1024 and I'd be happy if I could just tell the apex to use that measurement. Bit of a pain after spending $800 if you ask me. Appreciate any help.
The one thing I trust above all others is my Tropic Marin High Precision Hydrometer. It is always dead accurate. Basically I adjust my tank salinity using my TMHPH until it's at 53000, then just calibrate my salinity probe in the tank water.

I've tried dozens of times using solution over the years and it never works. I just keep wasting money on solution. It will read correctly in the solution, but as soon as I put it in my tank it goes wonky.


__________________
Current Tank Info: LeeMar Rimless (40x24x22), ATI 8x39 Dimmable w/Reefbrite Tech, 2x Vortech MP40w QD w/ Battery Backup, Apex Gold, Trigger Systems Ruby30S, Reef Octopus POV-DC1 w/Auto Waste Collector
DivingTheWorld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03/11/2018, 07:11 PM   #12
Dr RBG
Registered Member
 
Dr RBG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: New England
Posts: 133
I tried the method in the video and it calibrated to the standard solution within about 1/2 a point. When I transferred to the tank water it reads 43.5 ridiculous beats me. My Milwaukee tester says 35. Could the probe fail after less than a year? I will dry it out and try with the tank water


Dr RBG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03/12/2018, 07:57 PM   #13
windlasher
Registered Member
 
windlasher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 434
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr RBG View Post
I tried the method in the video and it calibrated to the standard solution within about 1/2 a point. When I transferred to the tank water it reads 43.5 ridiculous beats me. My Milwaukee tester says 35. Could the probe fail after less than a year? I will dry it out and try with the tank water
Let us know how that works. I have been reading a gazillion post about the same thing and tried everything. Finally have apex ready to do an RMA but apparently, that may not work.

One of the reasons I finally bit the bullet and spent the cash was because I was getting excited about the upcoming Apex TRIDENT. Now I am going to be cautious about that one because if they cant get the Salinity probe right, why should I trust them with something ultra important like Alk, Cal, Mag? Get that one wrong combined with dosing pumps and you have a dead tank.


__________________
---
Every time someone guesses my password, I have to change my dog's name. He's starting to get a twitch.
---
windlasher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03/13/2018, 08:23 AM   #14
Dr RBG
Registered Member
 
Dr RBG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: New England
Posts: 133
Probe Calibrated at last

Quote:
Originally Posted by DivingTheWorld View Post
The only way I've been able to get mine to calibrate is to verify the tank water is exactly 53000, and then calibrate with my probe in the tank, not solution.

This has worked Thanks to "Diving the World" First adjust tank water to 35ppm with a device you know is accurate like a calibrated refractometer or float device you trust.

1 Let probe dry in air for 24 hours
2. Begin calibration sequence with probe fully dry. Don't get it wet at all.
3 When apex says place in 53,000 solution which is 35ppm (or very close) put
it in the tank or sump and gently agitate it to remove air bubbles. they should
come out the small holes at the side of the probe. Move it to the holder
without taking it out of the water, and secure it in place.
4. Click next in the sequence to finish the calibration.
5. Up-Load to the apex (not sure if this is needed but can't hurt)
6. Fusion should now read 35ppm or very close to it

Let me know if this works




Last edited by Dr RBG; 03/13/2018 at 08:28 AM.
Dr RBG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03/13/2018, 10:07 PM   #15
windlasher
Registered Member
 
windlasher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 434
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr RBG View Post
This has worked Thanks to "Diving the World" First adjust tank water to 35ppm with a device you know is accurate like a calibrated refractometer or float device you trust.

1 Let probe dry in air for 24 hours
2. Begin calibration sequence with probe fully dry. Don't get it wet at all.
3 When apex says place in 53,000 solution which is 35ppm (or very close) put
it in the tank or sump and gently agitate it to remove air bubbles. they should
come out the small holes at the side of the probe. Move it to the holder
without taking it out of the water, and secure it in place.
4. Click next in the sequence to finish the calibration.
5. Up-Load to the apex (not sure if this is needed but can't hurt)
6. Fusion should now read 35ppm or very close to it

Let me know if this works

Ill try and report back.


__________________
---
Every time someone guesses my password, I have to change my dog's name. He's starting to get a twitch.
---
windlasher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03/14/2018, 09:34 AM   #16
d0ughb0y
Registered Member
 
d0ughb0y's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: sf bay area
Posts: 5,045
Quote:
Originally Posted by DivingTheWorld View Post
The one thing I trust above all others is my Tropic Marin High Precision Hydrometer. It is always dead accurate. Basically I adjust my tank salinity using my TMHPH until it's at 53000, then just calibrate my salinity probe in the tank water.

I've tried dozens of times using solution over the years and it never works. I just keep wasting money on solution. It will read correctly in the solution, but as soon as I put it in my tank it goes wonky.
I can see how this method works better. you are calibrating while the probe is picking up all kinds of electrical noise and interference coming from other probes (like ph), and power cords, etc. That's why the reading is different if you calibrate outside of the sump. Even if you take a cup of your exactly 35ppt tank water to calibrate the probe outside of the tank, you will likely not get the same reading if you put the probe in the tank due to the crap noise it is picking up. For the amount of money neptune charges for this, plus the galvanic isolation mumbo jumbo they claim, I think this should just work without going through hoops (just one of the many things that don't work well in Apex but people are afraid to talk about). your tropic marin is not affected by it right?

its still good practice to check the salinity outside of the tank to compare. salinity should be the same regardless if it is measured in the tank or outside.



Last edited by d0ughb0y; 03/14/2018 at 10:04 AM.
d0ughb0y is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03/14/2018, 10:33 AM   #17
DivingTheWorld
Registered Member
 
DivingTheWorld's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: San Ramon, CA
Posts: 1,587
Quote:
Originally Posted by d0ughb0y View Post
I can see how this method works better. you are calibrating while the probe is picking up all kinds of electrical noise and interference coming from other probes (like ph), and power cords, etc. That's why the reading is different if you calibrate outside of the sump. Even if you take a cup of your exactly 35ppt tank water to calibrate the probe outside of the tank, you will likely not get the same reading if you put the probe in the tank due to the crap noise it is picking up. For the amount of money neptune charges for this, plus the galvanic isolation mumbo jumbo they claim, I think this should just work without going through hoops (just one of the many things that don't work well in Apex but people are afraid to talk about). your tropic marin is not affected by it right?

its still good practice to check the salinity outside of the tank to compare. salinity should be the same regardless if it is measured in the tank or outside.
Yeah, the Tropic Marin is just a glass floating hydrometer. Simple, but dead accurate. For my probe, I have the wire totally isolated from any other wires and the probe is on the opposite side of the sump chamber from my other probes. I wanted to make sure there was no possibility of interference. And I agree, that shouldn't be an issue if it was constructed correctly. They should be using some sort of shielded wire.


__________________
Current Tank Info: LeeMar Rimless (40x24x22), ATI 8x39 Dimmable w/Reefbrite Tech, 2x Vortech MP40w QD w/ Battery Backup, Apex Gold, Trigger Systems Ruby30S, Reef Octopus POV-DC1 w/Auto Waste Collector
DivingTheWorld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04/02/2018, 06:05 AM   #18
slimfitz
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 61
The only way I can keep it working properly is to have the probe completely submerged in my sump upside down so no bubbles form in it. I even have problems with it in a rack holder in spots that don't appear to have any bubbles. So I just leave it submerged. Been this way for a few years now. I recalibrate it maybe every year.


slimfitz is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:13 AM.


TapaTalk Enabled

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2018 Axivo Inc.
Use of this web site is subject to the terms and conditions described in the user agreement.
Reef CentralTM Reef Central, LLC. Copyright ©1999-2014
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.