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Old 03/14/2018, 12:02 PM   #376
Chasmodes
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Quarantine is boring when it comes to watching my fish. Plus, my worry gauge is double what it normally is. That said, the fish are all doing fine. They look healthy, they're eating, they establish and maintain pecking orders, and defend territories, albeit zip tied pieces of PVC pipe. They were very skittish the first week and a half, but now respond to me during feeding time and don't flee during that time or during water changes, testing or treatment of meds. I guess that they're used to it. I have to wonder if any spawning activity will occur. Has anyone had that happen in QT while treating diseases?

Regarding the treatment and disease status, the fish have completely stopped scratching since about the fourth day of treatment, and the white film and spots on the fish are gone. They all look fat and healthy, breathing looks normal. So, to be safe, I'll have them at least in QT for 2 more weeks with copper, then another two weeks for observation after I get rid of the carbon. By that time, the tank should be parasite free, as it would be fallow for six weeks. I'm 1/3 of the way there, and so far so good.

The display tank is also a bit boring, although it is interesting to see more of the invertebrates than when fish are in there, specifically the crabs and bristle worms. The white thing is definitely a tube anemone and only fully extends after dark. When I turn the lights on, it draws back into a hole in the oyster shell. More jellyfish budding polyps have shown up on the same shells as the small anemones, if that is what they are. They could be another jellyfish species budding polyp, but I haven't seen any long tentacled jellies swimming around the tank. I have seen the short tentacled ones from what I know are the budding polyps, floating around in my tank. It's pretty cool, but I think that my power filters kill them off.

Some of the tunicates died off, but about a dozen of them are still alive and feeding. The mussels are still alive as are the barnacles and open up to feed when I add plankton. But overall, the DT is a bit boring without the fish, although the grass shrimp constantly cruise the tank without the fish in there. I had one shrimp commit suicide as I found it on my tank top glass. I can't figure out how it jumped out of the only tiny hole, but it did.

I only put the lights on for 4 hours a day, and cyano and other hair algae species have died way back, as have some of the other light dependent life, perhaps dinoflagellates? So the tank water is gin clear and the tank looks really clean. One month to go, and all will return to normal.

So, what happens then? I will work on the big tank for sure, but also keep the 20g long QT tank set up just for that purpose, with the mummichogs to keep the tank bacterial population going and use it for new collections. I will use the 20g high for invertebrate collections as an observation tank, keeping it fishless and fallow, so that any invertebrates, shells, or anything else becomes parasite free before adding it to the display tank. And once the 100g is set up, the 20g long DT will become a macro tank, most likely for sticklebacks and other weed loving bay critters. All of my current fish will go into the 100g oyster reef tank.

Future stocking list additions to the fish that I have now will include a hogchoker, a few more striped blennies, maybe one to three feather blennies, maybe some sheepshead minnows, perhaps a porcupinefish, and hopefully a tropical stray spotfin butterflyfish. My goal is to catch them all, but, I may have to purchase the last one if I don't have any luck finding any.

I'm so happy that the QT process is going well so far. My nerves will be much more calm when I can return all of the fish to their oyster reef home.


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Current Tank Info: 101g 3'X3'X18" Cubish Oyster Reef Blenny tank, 36"X17"X18" sump
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Old 03/14/2018, 12:20 PM   #377
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Great update! It sounds like everything is coming along nicely. It's boring but you have a great plan. It sure beats the alternative! I look forward to seeing your vision reach fruition!


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Old 03/15/2018, 06:14 AM   #378
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Thanks Michael.

I purchased a new mitre saw, so I'll be making some stands for my 20g tanks as well as to help me finish the stand for my big tank. I'll be working on my 75g freshwater native darter tank this weekend. How does that help this project? It frees up room for me, plus, I've been using my uncompleted stand as a work bench, LOL. By finishing the 75g work, it leaves me with the ability to finish my 100g stand. If I can do that, then I'll have the big tank up and running, cycled, etc. by summer. I also want to build a water changing station, so my woodworking will come in handy for that too.

As far as my fish go, they're a lot more active now and less skittish than last week. They seem healthy as their breathing is normal, skin looks great, fins are nice and full and extended, not bunched up like before. They aren't all that boring either, as it is kind of fun to watch them move through all of the pvc structures that I built.


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Current Tank Info: 101g 3'X3'X18" Cubish Oyster Reef Blenny tank, 36"X17"X18" sump
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Old 03/16/2018, 10:04 AM   #379
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Here is the display tank, fishless (fallow) as it looks today. I keep the lights off but save a few hours each day and have reduced feeding to a tiny bit of flakes each day plus bottled plankton 3x per week, so much of the hair algae and cyano has greatly reduced:


Video updates:
First video of the QT, fish are doing well, doing what they do but in a pretty much sterile, copper treated environment with PVC pipes zipped tied for hiding spots:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbfU6pneDPs

I'm pretty sure that this is a small tube anemone. It is bigger than the jellyfish polyps but smaller than the Ghost anemone. This guy is growing though, about 2x the size that it was when I first found it. It retreats to hide when I turn on the lights, so it is light sensitive. I may flip the oyster shell over once so it stays out when the lights come on, not sure yet. I doubt it is a worm, because it has too many tentacles, and don't seem feather like as most filter feeding worm tentacles appear.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0d3oCpKJGs

with the fish out of the display tank, the invertebrates and far less shy. Bristle worms come out to play a lot more these days. I believe that this species is commonly known as a clam worm. Here is one out foraging. I have yet to see one attack anything. They have a pretty nasty proboscis and will bite if handled (like bloodworms) but they seem to be very skittish. Even grass shrimp spook them, as you can see at the end of this video. I find them quite fascinating to watch. I'd say that I saw perhaps a half dozen different ones out at various times. There are many more tough, because there were at least a dozen that I could see along the edge of the tank glass in their burrows that never came out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_MdxenmysA

Remember the tiny anemones that I thought that I had? Well, they never seem to grow any bigger than what I can see enough of with a magnifying glass. So, I have been observing more and more, looked at this video, and then researched, and found that they also are moon jellyfish polyps, just a different stage (before budding). So, I'd say I have about a dozen either budding or non-budding polyp moon jellyfish in my tank.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MT8aDnRnMY

Here's another moon jellyfish polyp:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gh0px_aVnCs


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Current Tank Info: 101g 3'X3'X18" Cubish Oyster Reef Blenny tank, 36"X17"X18" sump
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Old 03/16/2018, 11:39 AM   #380
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More excellent vids! What are you shooting them with?

I like your pvc bundles in QT. The fish seem to too. Will the tube anemone grow into something like what we could buy? I've had one before and loved the delicate tentacles, moving in the current. Will the moon jellies be able to survive in your tank? At what point do they detach and become free-swimming? That is an impressive worm!

It's so cool to see all your local creatures thriving! You've got a good thing going!


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our desire to conquer and control everything, and walk hand in hand with Mother Nature. -Walter Adey

Current Tank Info: 180g Seagrass-Mangrove Mudbank Lagoon

Last edited by Michael Hoaster; 03/16/2018 at 01:13 PM.
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Old 03/16/2018, 01:04 PM   #381
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Thank you Michael!

I've been using my iPhone 7 Plus camera, sometimes with a tripod and sometimes without, depending on the critter to photograph.

If my ID is correct about the tube anemone, then they don't get very big about 2" max length and only about 3/4" diameter of the tentacles. They're basically white too. Also, most of the time they burrow in the sand. So, my hunch is that is why you wouldn't see them in your LFS, too small and not colorful. The issue with native critters in our area is also the bland colors, not popular at your LFS. Heck, they even dye fish in glow colors now and sell the you know what out of them. But, back to the tube anemone, the one attractive thing to reefers for them would be that they like to burrow in sand beds, maybe could be considered part of a clean up crew or something?

I doubt the jellyfish would survive in my tank to adulthood, simply because I'm using a HOB filter and a powerhead. Even in my big tank, they may survive in the sump, but the pump and also my gyre would probably kill them. I suspect that they'll survive at the cellular level through to the ephyra (larval medusa) stage, but after that...squish. Perhaps those torn up stay alive and become polyps? I still have no idea how they got in there. So, during the life cycle of the moon jelly, they basically spawn as adults, and after gamete fertilization, something called planula (a larva) forms and settles on some sort of substrate. It then morphs into a polyp that pretty much looks just like a mini anemone. I've seen them attached to my shells, and then grow into the polyp, and that process seems to take a couple weeks. Then, after a few more weeks, they change to the budding polyp, which reminds me of a stack of paper cupcake holders. I think that at that point, polyps start breaking away as a larval form of medusa called an ephyra. I've seen as many as eight ephyra stacked on to one polyp, and then after about a week it's down to one or two, and then just a nub of a base, so I guess another two weeks for a total of 6 weeks or so? These are my estimates, it may take a little longer. Until yesterday, I thought that I had anemones and the budding polyps looked different enough that I thought that they were a different species! Last night, the light bulb went off, especially when some of the "anemones" seemed to disappear. In my mind, I thought that they just moved like anemones often do, but nope, they turned into budding polyps and well, budded off. LOL. I have seen a couple of the ephyra floating/swimming in my tank current, but not often, and have yet to see one turn into a medusa. I suspect that might change in my sump refugium when that time comes, if I let it happen. I plan to donate the oyster shell with the most cniderian life on it to our local public aquarium jellyfish tank this weekend.

It was creepy seeing that worm come out, and then another one, and then another one, etc. But, after watching them around the shrimp, my guess is that they don't pose a thread to anything in my tank. That might be different if my blennies breed, because fish fry seem to always be food for just about anything. We will see when that day comes.

I am just thankful that none of my fish have died in QT. I've been good with my water changes and keeping the copper levels at the right therapeutic level, at least the fish seem to be telling me that based on their looks and activity. I'll be happy when it is over though and I can get them back home. Lots of life in the tank is way cool, no doubt. That video of the jellies also shows a lot of worms dancing around trying to catch planktonic food.


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Current Tank Info: 101g 3'X3'X18" Cubish Oyster Reef Blenny tank, 36"X17"X18" sump

Last edited by Chasmodes; 03/16/2018 at 01:15 PM.
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Old 03/16/2018, 01:12 PM   #382
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Also, if you look to the left of the center polyp, you can really see one of the budding polyps with an ephyra that is ready to break away, and might be the last one or maybe two on the stack. The ephyra "pumps" like it is trying to swim off and eventually, they do swim off. The budding polyp to the right of the whitish regular polyp seems to have more ephyra on the stack. It is really cool to see, but I'm not sure yet if this will be a problem in my tank in the future. If they become to prevalent and a problem with my fish, then I'll be scooping them out with a turkey baster kind of like you are doing with the sea slugs. I guess every garden has weeds to pull!


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Current Tank Info: 101g 3'X3'X18" Cubish Oyster Reef Blenny tank, 36"X17"X18" sump
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Old 03/26/2018, 07:32 AM   #383
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Update on my brackish tanks:
In the 20g Long display tank, which is fallow, I finally got a good video of what I was trying to ID earlier, and I'm pretty sure it is a ghost anemone, but still could be a tube anemone. I'll have to study more about both to determine this. But, it's not a worm, definitely a cniderian. I am also ruling out that this is a jellyfish polyp, because it's much larger than those, and is growing, and has not changed to a budding polyp. It has been there for a long time also. Also, in the video, I found a small tunicate that I hadn't seen before just to the left of the anemone. I think that my tunicates are reproducing. This is the second one that I've found. I need to go back and look at older pics and vids to determine if this was there before or not.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hofBRYavqJk&t=1s

Also, the ghost anemone wasn't doing well in the 20g high. All of a sudden, it wasn't attached to anything, its tentacles were withdrawn, and it looked a bit withered. I did a water change and it looked a little better for a while, but then became detached again. So, I took the opportunity, since it wasn't attached, to move it to the 20g long display tank. It is attached to a shell now and is doing much better. The tentacles haven't fully extended yet, but the main body and overall health looks much better. I've wanted to move this creature to the display tank for a long time.

The fish are in their last week of copper treatment, and are doing well. They're eating and look very healthy. After the last day of treament, then I will do water changes and add carbon to get rid of the copper. After that, I'll observe them in QT for a few weeks until the display tank fallow period ends, and then they get to go home.


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Current Tank Info: 101g 3'X3'X18" Cubish Oyster Reef Blenny tank, 36"X17"X18" sump
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Old 03/26/2018, 07:53 AM   #384
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That's cool you were able to move the nem. Glad to hear your tunicates are thriving and reproducing! I had good luck with mine adding phytoplankton and sodium silicate.

It also sounds like your QT process is on track. We're both in a not-so-exciting phase where we have to be patient. You've got a good plan and you're sticking to it. One of theses days we're going to have some freakin' awesome tanks!


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Current Tank Info: 180g Seagrass-Mangrove Mudbank Lagoon
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Old 03/26/2018, 09:00 AM   #385
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Thanks Michael.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Hoaster View Post
We're both in a not-so-exciting phase where we have to be patient.
You got that right! Ugh... I still watch my tank for a good bit of time, breaking out the magnifying glass and observing all of the inverts. But, it ain't the same without the fish. Bristleworms are always out at feeding time, and rarely came out with fish in there, for good reason...the blennies and skilletfish will eat them! I like that they're in there though, a renewable food source that is tough for the fish to catch, which keeps them on the hunt. I've learned a lot about them though, a plus for going fallow. But, I want my fish back in there! Soon.


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Current Tank Info: 101g 3'X3'X18" Cubish Oyster Reef Blenny tank, 36"X17"X18" sump
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Old 03/26/2018, 11:07 AM   #386
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Kevin,
Every time I see your rockrock, I recall my first marine tank 45 years ago. I so much like the way you aquascaped with oysters shells.

Have you considered a macro like Caulerpa Prolifera in your quarantine tank? During copper treatment with damaged bacteria populations, the macro would eliminate the need for frequent water changes.


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Old 03/27/2018, 06:32 AM   #387
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Thank you Patrick!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Subsea View Post
Kevin,
Have you considered a macro like Caulerpa Prolifera in your quarantine tank? During copper treatment with damaged bacteria populations, the macro would eliminate the need for frequent water changes.
I haven't. But that is a great tip. I was wondering what would work. I think it would make the fish feel more at home too. I will give it a try!


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Old 03/27/2018, 09:24 AM   #388
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A couple more videos:

The fallow display tank:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-w3soi4hkLM

A couple Harris Mud Crabs (Rhithropanopeus harrisii), one of two species in the tank. I always thought that these were a nasty muddy brown when collecting them in the field, but in a tank, they "clean up" really nice, and I find them quite attractive. They are very secretive though, but during the fallow period, when the fish are away, the crabs will play.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRMXr0LUz6c


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Current Tank Info: 101g 3'X3'X18" Cubish Oyster Reef Blenny tank, 36"X17"X18" sump
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Old 04/03/2018, 01:15 PM   #389
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The fish in QT are doing well, eating nicely. Copper treatment is over, so tonight I do my first water change, 25% and I'll add carbon to the filter to begin removing the copper from the system. In a few weeks, I'll move them back into the display.

Meanwhile, in the display tank, the invertebrates are having a party and doing math (multiplying). There are more bristleworms than I can count, so I hope that the fish have a good time eating some of them when they get back. The bristleworms are not aggressive toward anything in the tank, except each other now and then. If two of them meet, sometimes one will attack the other with a quick attacking motion. It resembles my Mom when I was a little kid smacking my hand when I tried to sneak a fresh cookie off of her baking sheet...lightning quick, as was I getting the heck outta there.


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Current Tank Info: 101g 3'X3'X18" Cubish Oyster Reef Blenny tank, 36"X17"X18" sump
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Old 04/03/2018, 02:42 PM   #390
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Congrats on a successful quarantine! I bet you're super excited to get those fish back in the display.

Good analogy with your mom and your worms! Now I want cookies…


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Current Tank Info: 180g Seagrass-Mangrove Mudbank Lagoon
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Old 04/13/2018, 06:28 AM   #391
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I had a minor setback the other day in QT. I saw one of the gobies scratching. I used to think that this behavior was at times due to an itch in general, not necessarily a parasitic symptom. But, I've since reconsidered that philosophy, and I now think that it's almost always because of a parasite.

I've been using Cuprimine, and at the time that I purchased it, I also bought a copper test kit from API. Since then, I've read that the API kit doesn't accurately measure Cuprimine for some reason, but I went ahead anyway and dosed based on the directions, and tested with the kit. The kit has been measuring consistently the same thing after my final dosing of Cuprimine, and until the other day, parasitic symptoms disappeared.

As a result, and based on what I read about the API kit, I went out in search of kits at local fish stores and the only one most of them carry is the API kit. The info that I had was that the Seachem and Salifert kits are better, and the best is an expensive test kit that you can only get on line. I'd rather not go expensive, and I thought it would be faster to find either of the other kits at a LFS...not so easy.

Well, yesterday, I found the Salifert kit at a LFS in the Baltimore area after a doctor's appointment that I had up there. I got home and measured, and sure enough, the dosage was a bit below the therapeutic level, so I upped the dose by adding 5 drops more last night, and five more today. I will measure again tonight, and keep doing that until I reach the therapeutic level, and then the countdown begins again for treatment. This time, I'll keep them at this level for three weeks.

They're still eating and active, so far so good with that. I haven't seen any more scratching, so that is good. The QT is also more than 10' away from the nearest tank.


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Current Tank Info: 101g 3'X3'X18" Cubish Oyster Reef Blenny tank, 36"X17"X18" sump
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Old 04/13/2018, 06:49 AM   #392
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Well bummer… Sorry to hear that, but glad to hear you've worked it out. Your fish are lucky to have you!


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Current Tank Info: 180g Seagrass-Mangrove Mudbank Lagoon
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