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Old 12/25/2015, 11:52 AM   #2026
bnumair
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Happy Holidays
Yes add a bit of ammonia in form of food or 100% ammonia in bottle to atleast 1.5 ppm then test 4 hrs later. ammonia should drop to 0 and you might see some nitrites and definitely rise in nitrates. this will be indication of a cycled tank.


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Old 12/25/2015, 12:43 PM   #2027
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Quote:
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Happy Holidays
Yes add a bit of ammonia in form of food or 100% ammonia in bottle to atleast 1.5 ppm then test 4 hrs later. ammonia should drop to 0 and you might see some nitrites and definitely rise in nitrates. this will be indication of a cycled tank.

how do I know how much food to add?
what kind of food should I add?
I added reef roids powder thinking that it would do the job, but I am not sure if it did since I added it yesterday and today there is cero amonia in water.
should I add a raw shrimp a live it there until amonia is 1.5 or 2 ppm and then pull it out???

should the shrimp spike amonia in one day??

Thanks


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Old 12/25/2015, 04:42 PM   #2028
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how do I know how much food to add?
what kind of food should I add?
I added reef roids powder thinking that it would do the job, but I am not sure if it did since I added it yesterday and today there is cero amonia in water.
should I add a raw shrimp a live it there until amonia is 1.5 or 2 ppm and then pull it out???

should the shrimp spike amonia in one day??

Thanks
place a deli shrimp in the tank for 3-4 hrs and check for ammonia. whatever the reading is record it and then check 24 hrs later to see if ammonia has decreased to 0. if it has pull the shrimp out regardless and wait till ammonia hit zero and ur biggest indicator will be nitrites and nitrates spike. which we know today they are 0.5 and 6ppm respectively.


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Old 12/25/2015, 07:21 PM   #2029
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Thanks Bnumair,
The shrimp was in the quarentine tank for 5 hours
you can fill the rotten smell beside the tank, wife started complaining...

I took the shrimp out because I guess it will rott all the water if it stays all night. I do not have a chiller in this tank and water is at 80.5 F
I guess the rotten smell indicates decomposition which would result in amonia right?
But, I tested amonia and it tests cero. could this indicate that tank is cycled?
I tested nitrities and it is cero now ( went down from 0.5 in the morning to cero now)
I tested nitrates and I can tell it is more than 5 and less than 10 but not sure if more than previous reading of 6, maybe a little more but not to much to jump to 10
What do you think?
did I do the right thing taking shrimp out after 5 hours?
what should I do next?

Thanks for your help


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Old 12/25/2015, 11:12 PM   #2030
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i would put 2-3 good size pinch of fish food in the tank and leave it to test tomorrow and report all test results. then we can be for sure.


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Old 12/26/2015, 05:51 PM   #2031
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Bnumar,
today in the morning I dosed the tank 1 cube of myses, 1/2 tsp of reef roids and 1/4 tsp of coral frenzy.
My test result 12 hours later are as follows:
Amonia : 0.1
Nitrite : 0.1
Nitrate: more than 5 but still not 10, I guess is still the same, around 6
I run a skimer in this Coral QT tank so it took out a lot of the food that I added

I added one frag of pulsing xenia and it started pulsing, do you know if it would pulse in a non cycled tank?

any conclusion with these results?
it seems that amonia does not go up?
any recomendation?

Thanks for your help


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Old 12/27/2015, 06:57 AM   #2032
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Bnumair,
I measured again today morning and the results are:
Amonia: cero or almost cero
Nitrite went up from 0.05 ( first measurement 2 days ago) to 0.2 today
Nitrate went up from 6 to around 7.5
would the tank be considered cycled or changes in numbers need to be more drastic to conclude??

Thanks for your answer


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Old 12/27/2015, 08:03 AM   #2033
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personally I think its cycled. I would do a large water change to reduce nitrates and start adding fish


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Old 12/27/2015, 09:01 AM   #2034
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Yes it sure looks like tank is cycled. Do a water change and I think you are good to go.
Good luck and happy reefing


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Old 12/27/2015, 10:46 AM   #2035
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Thanks,

one more question:
why do a Water change now?
I ask because nitrates are not high

thanks for your answer


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Old 12/27/2015, 09:57 PM   #2036
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Thanks,

one more question:
why do a Water change now?
I ask because nitrates are not high

thanks for your answer
nitrates are not to high at this point but will get higher as all the food you put in there decomposes and bacteria finally catches on and produces nitrates.
if you do a water change now and siphon out most of the food and debris off the rocks and sand etc chances are you will not see a spike in nitrates thus giving you a head start over all the nitrate related issues.
you dont have to do water change at this time and can wait till nitrates shoot up a little, its my personal preference, i rather have a head start.


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Old 12/28/2015, 06:52 AM   #2037
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nitrates are not to high at this point but will get higher as all the food you put in there decomposes and bacteria finally catches on and produces nitrates.
if you do a water change now and siphon out most of the food and debris off the rocks and sand etc chances are you will not see a spike in nitrates thus giving you a head start over all the nitrate related issues.
you dont have to do water change at this time and can wait till nitrates shoot up a little, its my personal preference, i rather have a head start.
Thanks!
what % Water change would you do??

I will start treating my fish with Total transffer method. I will use 30 gal QT, since there is no biofilter in these tanks should the food for the fish be very limited to avoid amonia spikes?
or that should not be an issue if I use prime to protect against amonia?


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Old 12/29/2015, 03:31 AM   #2038
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Thanks!
what % Water change would you do??

I will start treating my fish with Total transffer method. I will use 30 gal QT, since there is no biofilter in these tanks should the food for the fish be very limited to avoid amonia spikes?
or that should not be an issue if I use prime to protect against amonia?
i would do 25% atleast or 50% at most on water change.
in an unclycled tank with fish, put just enough food for fish to consume within 2 minutes. Not just throw bunch of food in there and assume its enough for 2 min. whats best is to put a little watch fish eat then put a little more watch them eat and so on till they lose interest or actual feeding time was 2-3 min. in uncycled qt keep actual feeding under 2 min. if you can siphon out uneaten food after feeding. these steps will prevent ammonia along with help of prime.
note prime will give false ammonia reading on test. the more they eat more they will poop which is also a contributor for ammonia.


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Current Tank Info: 350g DT,95g sump, 50g Frag tank, 4800gph return 4x Sea swirls. 6x AI Vega Color. 200# Pukani rock, dual recirculating skimmer, Biopellet, GFO Carbon rx's, Cal rx. Closed loop. 1.5hp chiller, genesis renew. Apex & RKE
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Old 12/29/2015, 07:29 AM   #2039
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Thanks a lot Bnumair

a couple more comments and questions:
1.- I have read in this thread that you do not quarentine invertebrates, like snails or shrimps. You have never had an issue not quarentining them? is there something you do to prevent ich cyst comming from a coral plug or rock or an invertebrate shell?

2.- The Quarentine tank that I have ready is for coral and invertabrates only not for fish. the plan is to treat them in batches of 3 months to be 100% sure there is no ich when I move them to my new DT. I will treat all fish with TTM and prazipro. I am seting up a new 470 g DT and I want to be 100 % sure no ich comes into the new system.
I would like to seed the new 470 g DT but I never treated fish in my actual 150g DT so I have to assume that it has ich ( although fish look fine). I did not mind seeding the QT coral tank with seeded rings from my actual DT because it will always run fishless.

A friend from RC recommended me to seed the ceramic rings in a 10gal bucket with new saline water, an air tube in it , add stability everyday and add food every 2-3 days for 2-4 weeks.

- my question is how much ceramic media should I use to seed this new system??
it has a 470g DT, 120 g sump and a 70g sea horse DT connected to the same system.

- do sea horses get ich?? I ask because if so I need to do TTM to them also.

any reccomendations you would like to make??

Thank you very much


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Old 12/29/2015, 08:38 PM   #2040
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Thanks a lot Bnumair

a couple more comments and questions:
1.- I have read in this thread that you do not quarentine invertebrates, like snails or shrimps. You have never had an issue not quarentining them? is there something you do to prevent ich cyst comming from a coral plug or rock or an invertebrate shell?

i have never used qt for inverts or corals. chances are very rare for ich to make it on inverts but a cyst can be carried on an invert to a new system. i generally use coral dip like revive or coralRx as per manufacturer recommendation and move them to DT. i guess i have been lucky so far. if you have a very healthy / clean system one cyst that made it through will probably not last as it need weak host fish. if your fish are healthy they will most likely fight it off.

2.- The Quarentine tank that I have ready is for coral and invertabrates only not for fish. the plan is to treat them in batches of 3 months to be 100% sure there is no ich when I move them to my new DT. I will treat all fish with TTM and prazipro. I am seting up a new 470 g DT and I want to be 100 % sure no ich comes into the new system.

i see nothing wrong with that if you like to be very sure.

I would like to seed the new 470 g DT but I never treated fish in my actual 150g DT so I have to assume that it has ich ( although fish look fine). I did not mind seeding the QT coral tank with seeded rings from my actual DT because it will always run fishless.

A friend from RC recommended me to seed the ceramic rings in a 10gal bucket with new saline water, an air tube in it , add stability everyday and add food every 2-3 days for 2-4 weeks.

- my question is how much ceramic media should I use to seed this new system??
it has a 470g DT, 120 g sump and a 70g sea horse DT connected to the same system.
you dont need a whole lot, seeding is just that , seeding...so a little amount from an established source or few pounds of live rock will get the process going.

- do sea horses get ich?? I ask because if so I need to do TTM to them also.
its rare but they can in gills and fins but very rare.

any reccomendations you would like to make??

here is a link to acclimation guide i wrote that might be helpful http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...+of+new+corals
Thank you very much



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Current Tank Info: 350g DT,95g sump, 50g Frag tank, 4800gph return 4x Sea swirls. 6x AI Vega Color. 200# Pukani rock, dual recirculating skimmer, Biopellet, GFO Carbon rx's, Cal rx. Closed loop. 1.5hp chiller, genesis renew. Apex & RKE
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Old 12/30/2015, 07:23 AM   #2041
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Thanks, here are more questions. I hope you do not mind, jajaj
1.- I planned to use the shrimp method for cycling this big system ( 600+ galon)
Since it is big how many shrimp do you think I would have to put in and for how many days.?
I will seed it with ceramic rings with bacteria and also plan to dose stability.
how many days should I dose stability in addition to the seeding?

one thing that I worry is the smell of the tank. When I did it in the quarentine coral fishless tank I put only one shrimp for 7 hours and my wife started complaining.

I know we have to measure amonia, nitrite and nitrate to be sure tank is cycled, but in quarentine tank amonia levels never got above 0.1 and nitrite was 0.2 the highest. so in big system it could also happen that amonia levels do not sky rocket also. I do not know if this is not good for starting a new tank?

please tell me what you think.

2.- Quarentine coral fishless tank:
tank is cycled and with coral in it. since there is no fish in tank, I am only using coral food such as reef roids and coral frenzy ( both powders). would these kind of food keep the bacteria happy? I ask becuase I am not sure if they will add amonia for the bacteria? do I have to feed these foods every day of every other day would be fine for the bacteria?

thanks a lot


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Old 12/30/2015, 09:01 AM   #2042
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Thanks, here are more questions. I hope you do not mind, jajaj

i dont mind questions, feel free to ask

1.- I planned to use the shrimp method for cycling this big system ( 600+ galon)
Since it is big how many shrimp do you think I would have to put in and for how many days.?
atleast 3-5 shrimp for such big system or use pure ammonia in bottle (for cleaning purposes) and raise the ammonia level in tank to 1.5-2 ppm

I will seed it with ceramic rings with bacteria and also plan to dose stability.
how many days should I dose stability in addition to the seeding?

just to be sure of the cycle, i would hold off on stability till there is atleast 1ppm ammonia in the tank then use it as directed

one thing that I worry is the smell of the tank. When I did it in the quarentine coral fishless tank I put only one shrimp for 7 hours and my wife started complaining.

shrimp will decay and stink in a big system maybe not as much. you can always use pure ammonia or fish food in moderate quantities feeding tank daily till u reach ammoia 1.5 ppm. if u do ghost feed the tank make sure after cycle to siphon the sand and rocks for debris.

I know we have to measure amonia, nitrite and nitrate to be sure tank is cycled, but in quarentine tank amonia levels never got above 0.1 and nitrite was 0.2 the highest. so in big system it could also happen that amonia levels do not sky rocket also. I do not know if this is not good for starting a new tank?
i believe ammonia never went up much is due to stability being used in the tank. if you hold off on it till ammonia rises it would be better.


please tell me what you think.

2.- Quarentine coral fishless tank:
tank is cycled and with coral in it. since there is no fish in tank, I am only using coral food such as reef roids and coral frenzy ( both powders). would these kind of food keep the bacteria happy? I ask becuase I am not sure if they will add amonia for the bacteria? do I have to feed these foods every day of every other day would be fine for the bacteria?
any food source will break down to ammonia. corals will all produce ammonia so you are fine there.

thanks a lot
hope that answers, feels free to ask, good luck and safe reefing



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Current Tank Info: 350g DT,95g sump, 50g Frag tank, 4800gph return 4x Sea swirls. 6x AI Vega Color. 200# Pukani rock, dual recirculating skimmer, Biopellet, GFO Carbon rx's, Cal rx. Closed loop. 1.5hp chiller, genesis renew. Apex & RKE
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Old 12/30/2015, 05:54 PM   #2043
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Thanks, it helps a lot!
I do not want to ghost feed because it will be difficult to siphon everything and algae maybe a problem down the road. I guess the shrimp or dosing pure ammonia are better in that sense??

which method do you preffer, the shrimp method or dose pure ammonia and why?
when you say pure ammonia, you reffer to amonium hidroxide?
solutions used for cleanings have alcohol and other aditives as well. I guess I would have to find a source of getting pure ammonia.

If I understand correctly I should not seed the Tank with the seeded ceramic rings until after I reach 1.5 or 2 ppm of ammonia?? after I get that reading of ammonia, then I put the seeded ceramic rings in the tank and also dose stability, correct?
In the Quarentine coral fishless tank I seeded the tank with the ceramic rings and also dosed stability since day 1, then I added the shrimp in day 3, I suppose that is why ammonia never got higher than 0.1

Thanks again


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Old 01/01/2016, 06:18 AM   #2044
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Thanks, it helps a lot!
I do not want to ghost feed because it will be difficult to siphon everything and algae maybe a problem down the road. I guess the shrimp or dosing pure ammonia are better in that sense??
that is true ghost feeding is not siphoned will add on to problems later. shrimp in a pantyhose is a better option

which method do you preffer, the shrimp method or dose pure ammonia and why?
when you say pure ammonia, you reffer to amonium hidroxide?
solutions used for cleanings have alcohol and other aditives as well. I guess I would have to find a source of getting pure ammonia.

i personally have never used pure ammonia. i was neer able to find it in stores. atleast never in pure 100% ammonia form so i always used shrimp.

If I understand correctly I should not seed the Tank with the seeded ceramic rings until after I reach 1.5 or 2 ppm of ammonia?? after I get that reading of ammonia, then I put the seeded ceramic rings in the tank and also dose stability, correct?
In the Quarentine coral fishless tank I seeded the tank with the ceramic rings and also dosed stability since day 1, then I added the shrimp in day 3, I suppose that is why ammonia never got higher than 0.1
logic is 100% correct. if the tank is established you may never see ammonia spike. this is the reason why you see posts here on RC where someone started a new tank with all good quality Live rock and they never saw a cycle. The concept of cycling is to generate enough bacteria that it starts to convert ammonia to nitrites and then to nitrates. if some how you bring in a lot of established bacteria in a new system you may never see a spike. in your qt case that was the reason.

Thanks again



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Current Tank Info: 350g DT,95g sump, 50g Frag tank, 4800gph return 4x Sea swirls. 6x AI Vega Color. 200# Pukani rock, dual recirculating skimmer, Biopellet, GFO Carbon rx's, Cal rx. Closed loop. 1.5hp chiller, genesis renew. Apex & RKE
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Old 01/01/2016, 06:00 PM   #2045
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Happy new year!

Thanks for all that you share with us, it really helps a lot.

Today is the 2nd day of my second tank transffer on the 1st fish.
I decided to treat all my fish with TTM. I have an 80g Quaretine tank for observation only but it will not be cycled when my first fish complete the TTM.
Do you think it is safe to put the fish in the 80g observation tank if I to start dosing stability since day one and have 1 filter sponge inside the tank to poblate with bacteria?
I was thinking of having an amonia badge inside the tank and also dose prime for peace of mind. I will only put 1 fish since it is my first TTM and I wanted to try the method.

2.- my second load of fish to be treated by TTM are tangs. I treat them in 20g tanks for TTM. do you think it would be apropriate to give 2 medium size tangs half a sheet of nory a day in the 20g uncycled tanks when doing the TTM?
I just want to have a feeling if half a sheet is not to much in the sense that ammonia can creep in the 20g tank
I have been dosing prime in 2nd and 3rd day of TTM

3.- I am a pharmacist, I think I know how to get pure ammonia for cycling the a tank.
do you happen to know if what we are looking for is NH4OH (amonium hidroxide)?

please tell me what you think
thanks a lot


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Old 01/06/2016, 08:53 AM   #2046
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Are there any ammonia reducing products that are safe to use with cupramine? I set up a 30 gallon quarantine a few days ago since the fish in my display are starting to show ick. I took some sponges out of my display to put in the HOB filter in the QT tank. I'd like to get my fish moved over in the next few days to avoid losing any. I am assuming the qt tank will not be able to handle to bio load at this point. There will be a decent amount of fish in there (large adult pair of onyx percula clowns, 4 red spot glass cardinals, yellow clown goby, and a yellow tail damsel). The cardinals require pretty heavy feeding to keep healthy. I'm fine with doing frequent water changes but I'm not sure if that will be enough.


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Old 01/07/2016, 08:15 AM   #2047
row12
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Hello all! I have a 300 gallon SPS DT with the following fish: Emperor Angel, Purple Tang, WhiteTail Bristletooth Tang, Labouti, Lineatus, Solarensis, Orange Back, Red Velvet, Pintail Pair, Rhomboid Pair, 9 Bimac Anthias, Blue Star Leopard, Yellow Coris, and Christmas Wrasse. I just recently picked up an Achillies tang to complete my fish list and he is in an acclimation box in my DT. My DT has had ich for the past yr and I have been debating on going fallow to clear it up especially prior to releasing the Achillies. I have a 300 gallon rubbermaid that I was going to use to house the fish while my DT is fallow, but I have a few questions before I begin setting it up.

I want to perform TTM on the fish prior to housing in my rubbermaid container. My plan is as follows:

1. Take water from my DT after my next water change
2. Setup a canister filter (Aquatop 500 w/ UV light), heater, and powerheads
3. Seed it with filter floss from the DT
4. Treat the rubbermaid setup with copper to eradicate any potential ich on the filter floss and DT water.
5. Begin TTM on fish in separate containers
6. Remove copper medication from rubbermaid setup with carbon and water change
7. Transfer fish to Rubbermaid setup while DT remains fallow

Will copper kill any beneficial biological bacteria?
Should I add any biological bacteria to the rubbermaid setup?
Any other recommendations with my above process?

Thanks for your help!


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Old 01/07/2016, 08:32 AM   #2048
kyle.nagel13
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I'm far from an expert on Ich, but I believe that both of you, Pfan151 and row12 are just transferring your issues to a new tank by introducing media from your existing tanks. I personally would just ask around and see if any other reefers in your area can seed some media in their tank for you. Again, I'm not an expert and I'm sure someone else will chime in, but by moving media your transferring the ich spores.


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Old 01/07/2016, 08:37 AM   #2049
row12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyle.nagel13 View Post
I'm far from an expert on Ich, but I believe that both of you, Pfan151 and row12 are just transferring your issues to a new tank by introducing media from your existing tanks. I personally would just ask around and see if any other reefers in your area can seed some media in their tank for you. Again, I'm not an expert and I'm sure someone else will chime in, but by moving media your transferring the ich spores.
Which is why I want to treat the rubbermaid setup with copper prior to transferring the fish once they are done with TTM...I was thinking by doing so I would eliminate the ich and sterilize the system without having to put the fish thru the stress of copper.


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Old 01/07/2016, 09:51 AM   #2050
pfan151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyle.nagel13 View Post
I'm far from an expert on Ich, but I believe that both of you, Pfan151 and row12 are just transferring your issues to a new tank by introducing media from your existing tanks. I personally would just ask around and see if any other reefers in your area can seed some media in their tank for you. Again, I'm not an expert and I'm sure someone else will chime in, but by moving media your transferring the ich spores.


Using media from the ick infected tank to seed the QT tanks doesn't matter. The QT tank will have ick as soon as my fish are put into it anyway. The copper will kill all of the parasites in the QT tank.


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