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Old 07/30/2016, 01:18 PM   #51
karimwassef
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When resting inside the DT, the flowtanks structure looks like this:

 photo 25_zpschvepcpz.png

 photo 26_zpsgthysdrm.png

so with the eurobracing and all other components, the system looks like this:

 photo 27_zpshvy9hadc.png


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Old 07/30/2016, 01:19 PM   #52
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I also use eggcrate to create the mechanical outlay of the rockscape

 photo 28_zpsss7okb55.png

and I decided to add a three way wavebox at the end of the peninsula. It's removable in case I don't like it, but it adds another element of flow.

 photo 29_zpsbtghhy5v.png


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Old 07/30/2016, 01:19 PM   #53
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the large external circulation loop looks like this:

 photo 30_zpsqr0j4h74.png

and here are the pipes alone to make it easier to understand

 photo 31_zpsm6id9onv.png


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Old 07/30/2016, 01:21 PM   #54
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white pipes are drains from the DT to the sump.
red pipes are emergency overflows (into the sump in this case).
green pipes are returns from the surge refugium (above the tank).

There's another network that goes from the sump to the surge, but I'll cover that later.
Finally, I add plywood doors to be able to access under the tank (storage) and to look inside the cavern region (usually dark). Here's the total design so far

 photo 32_zpsgek1g59w.png


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Old 07/30/2016, 01:30 PM   #55
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Wow awesome planing mate!!!
I hope so bad that you will be able to set it up as soon as possible!!!


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Old 07/30/2016, 01:31 PM   #56
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Great attention to detail. Tagging along for this one.


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Old 07/30/2016, 07:04 PM   #57
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Thanks guys.

Ok - so a little philosophy about the tank.

You might ask why I have almost half the tank in darkness and why the actual reef is an even smaller ratio of the total water volume. The sump, surge, ATS and other systems are probably another 500 gallons (better math soon).

So.. why?

I believe that natural reefs are composed of many zones and we're only interested in watching the pretty colorful sections. But the hidden sections are just as important as the visible sections.

So I wanted to combine three zones in one tank:

1. The shallow bright reef
2. The deep dropoff reef
3. The dark cave reef

This configuration achieves that.

Next, these zones can easily create many dead zones and I'm personally a big fan of large gyre circulating flow. This is where the four windows come in. The two top windows and two bottom windows as well as the long direction separators in the vertical and horizontal directions really create 4 long paths and the powerheads in the back flowtank can be timed and driven to create circulating flow across any of the four flow zones.

So - three light zones and four flow zones.


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Old 07/30/2016, 07:05 PM   #58
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Here are the light zones:

 photo 0_zpsgoxmgpax.png

and here are the flow zones:

 photo 1_zpsarmaaamy.png


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Old 07/30/2016, 07:06 PM   #59
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So, depending on the configuration of pumps, different flow modes are possible. For example:

 photo 1010_zpsbphvrokx.png

or

 photo 0101_zpspsysl0su.png

or

 photo 0011_zpsycxnq3pu.png


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Old 07/30/2016, 07:08 PM   #60
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So there are 16 possible flow modes (really 14 since 0000 isn't a flow mode and 1111 can't really function since there'd be no sink to the sources.)

 photo 1_zpshrieaumz.png

Here are the 6 normal modes

 photo 2_zpssq8oav5e.png

and here are the 4 extreme modes

 photo 4_zpswkpwplqg.png

and here the 4 gentle modes

 photo 3_zpsgdfak5dd.png


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Old 07/30/2016, 07:26 PM   #61
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So why the interest in the dark zone?

The eggcrate will only allow small fish to get in and out of this zone. So this will really be an inverterbrate and sponge zone. I expect this to become a breeding zone for shrimp, crab, etc...

The difficulty is that this zone will not be accessible once the reef is set up. It can be flushed with water, but physical access will be limited.

I don't plan any structures in this space - no rockwork or artificial structures like eggcrate, etc... (for now).

There will be no sand intentionally in this zone, but I'm sure there will be some buildup. I'm considering bottom bulkheads to allow flushing this zone if needed. I might even use this as a the water change source.


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Old 07/30/2016, 07:39 PM   #62
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Wow this is well thought out! I can't wait to see this one happen


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Old 07/30/2016, 08:19 PM   #63
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This one will be in the design phase for a while. I'll run some small scale experiments but I not in a rush to spend the $$$ yet.

Measure three times, cut once.


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Old 07/30/2016, 10:43 PM   #64
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ok. here's the filtration / external loop. This includes a sump, but only as a mechanical control interface to the surge/refugium. It really doesn't serve any other function - no media.

I would like to convert this to a settling tank, but that's not planned out yet.

here's the front view:

 photo 0_zpswutd1mot.png

and the back view:

 photo 1_zps3quorej2.png

Basically, there are four drain lines. The two ordinary drains operate like a conventional beananimal with one fully open and the second tuned to minimize bubbles under normal flow. The red line is the emergency drain. The difference here is a fourth drain line that has an actuated valve on it. This is timed to align with the surge events to try to control the bubbles.

 photo 2_zpsl5tzxpnu.png

I employ baffles and a floating screen to reduce bubbles again. Then the pump stage. This has multiple pumps that push water up to the surge with minor taps to external loops.

 photo 3_zpsnan1ttik.png

The pumps push water up using individual lines to get to an acceptable flow rate of 8-10K gph. There's no need for a siphon block because the pump outlets point up and all 5 are in a dedicated chamber.

 photo 7_zpsrusfqkry.png

The outlet chamber floods into the refugium chamber and then a baffle to the surge chambers. Each has multiple actuated lines down to the tank and one has an emergency overflow to the surge.

 photo 4_zpsxd0vz3qc.png

The pink are surge and the green are returns. Since they're all actuated, they can be repurposed to act as surges or controlled flow returns.

The external lines lead out to the outside of the house - to the chiller, ATS and mangrove garden.

 photo 5_zpspafrvr25.png

 photo 6_zpszxnljtr4.png


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Old 07/31/2016, 11:01 AM   #65
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How fast is that surge going to be?

Wouldn't that put a lot of force / pressure on some of the tank walls?


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Old 07/31/2016, 11:13 AM   #66
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The surge will be comparable to what I have in my current tank ~ 20 gal over 5 seconds per surge per event.

If multiple surges go off at the same time, it would be 80-100 gal / 5 seconds. This is a bit of a compromise in tank overhead and overflow capacity.

It really doesn't exert that much force on tank walls in my experience. The force is buffered by the size of the tank.

In my current setup, the surge is directed down the long path ~ 8 ft. By the time it reaches the far wall, it's already looped multiple times and created multi-flows.


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Old 07/31/2016, 11:17 AM   #67
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So I'll start the self-criticism...

I have multiple flows into the tank - 4 controlled, 2 surge and two more lines I haven't shared yet. That's 8 inlets at 2" diameter each. The total will average about 10K gph or so. The surges will add bursts of flow of 20-100 gal over 5 seconds.

How are 3 drains at 2" diameter going to manage that?? It's really 2 drains with one more dedicated for surge, but wouldn't that put the emergency overflow into constant use???


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Old 07/31/2016, 11:42 AM   #68
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Rebuttal - the drains should be able to run in full siphon mode and 2" at 4ft should be able to pull 4K gph. Two of them can handle 8K and the last one can handle the surge allowing for a few inches of tank height to absorb the inrush.


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Failure isn't an option It's a requirement. 660g 380inwall+280smp/surge S/L/Soft/Maxima/RBTA/Clown/Chromis/Anthias/Tang/Mandarin/Jawfish/Goby/Wrasse/D'back. DIY 12' Skimmer ActuatedSurge ConcreteScape
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Old 07/31/2016, 11:44 AM   #69
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Well here's hoping your ability to find the house that you want & built everything is just as good as your ability to make sketch drawings of what you want As this is something I hope I'm still alive to see happen


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Old 07/31/2016, 11:51 AM   #70
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Criticism - but each of the 4 total drains have 6 or 8 ft of horizontal run. That would trap air bubbles and stop a full siphon from forming!

Rebuttal - but before the horizontal runs, they have a drop of 3ft. That should be able to form a solid siphon with enough pressure to blast out a large air bubble.

Criticism - I think you need to work out the pressure drops in those angles to be sure. Also should add more drains to be safe.

Rebuttal - There's no room for more drains. The circulation powerheads in the flowtank structure take up a lot of room and create an obstruction for more drains.

Criticism - Look man! I'm just trying to help you out here...

Ok - I'm not schizophrenic. I'm just thinking out loud to work out the bugs.


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Old 07/31/2016, 11:55 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sfsuphysics View Post
Well here's hoping your ability to find the house that you want & built everything is just as good as your ability to make sketch drawings of what you want As this is something I hope I'm still alive to see happen
SF is only 4 hours away - I'm going to need help


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Old 07/31/2016, 01:11 PM   #72
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Well part of me says as long as you pay for round trip airfare... but then the sensible side of me says I grew up in this region, I'm acclimated to this weather which means I'm pretty much going to be a pansy if I go anywhere "out of season" which is most of the country during certain times of the year. I'm pretty sure Texas will only have a small window to where I'm comfortable doing anything (and unfortunately I'll probably be teaching during that window)

Besides I have been marveling at the engineering of our forefathers who used 2x4s to make a raised floor over a span of 12 feet (no wonder there's so much bounce to it) now let me put 350g of aquarium on it (translation: I'm busy with construction work for my own tank...)


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Old 07/31/2016, 05:14 PM   #73
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ok - I'll settle for vetting out any bad ideas that might break the design.

with the goal of getting to something better and more robust, of course.


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Old 08/01/2016, 02:14 AM   #74
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Loved the solar refugium plan....subscribed


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Old 08/01/2016, 05:55 AM   #75
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Thanks. I think there will be other needs to run wires and pipes to the outside so I'm thinking of having a rectangular channel 4" x 24" created under or in the concrete slab to allow for some flexibility. The problem is that I may need it to exit on two different sides of the sunroom... For example, I want the chiller in a cool shadowed spot but the greenhouse in a sunny spot.

I also don't know the conventional building tools to avoid this channel from getting flooded or filled with dirt (or critters - this is TX). Angled ends? Caps? My plan was to fill it with foam on all openings and then break up the foam and reapply if changes are needed.

Every device would need a return too, but in this case, the mangroves and ATS share a return.

Given the distance, this may need more to avoid a flood in case one return is clogged since it is open (unlike the chiller). Does it also need a booster pump?

This part needs more thought but it's important.


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