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Old 11/14/2017, 11:10 AM   #1
marinelife
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Need your thoughts

I am thinking about my flow, currently have 4 280 gyre pumps and 2 6105 streams in my 375 plus a Ecotech L1 on a closed loop with Penductors on the ends. The L1 sucks and is being replaced with an Abyzz A200 this week.
I have the ability to add a second closed loop and was thinking of removing the gyres and adding the second closed loop run by a red dragon 3 230watt pump or another Abyzz.
Would the abyzz and red dragon 3 with Penductors and the streams be enough for sps corals in a 375?

The gyres are great but the noise level is driving us nuts at night.


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Old 11/14/2017, 07:09 PM   #2
Dmorty217
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You know my vote. I'm surprised no one else has a opinion on this


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Old 11/14/2017, 07:56 PM   #3
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At this time I think I am going to get a rd3 and use it as a second closed loop. Gotta sell the gyre pumps and wait for Black Friday and see what specials they have on the rd 3


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Old 11/15/2017, 02:04 PM   #4
jda
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If you are going to run that kind of wattage, why not get some AmpMasters which will move significantly more water in a CL and really take advantage of your eductors?

You are probably not getting many responses since folks don't typically use RDs or DC pumps in general for this.


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Old 11/15/2017, 04:12 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by jda View Post
If you are going to run that kind of wattage, why not get some AmpMasters which will move significantly more water in a CL and really take advantage of your eductors?

You are probably not getting many responses since folks don't typically use RDs or DC pumps in general for this.
Below are 3 Ampmasters that I am aware of that would be even close in comparison. Is there one I am missing?

Dolphin Amp Mater 7200 is 520w for 7200 GPH in a Closed loop
Ampmaster Diamond 6250 is 520w for 6250 GPH
Ampmaster 4750 is about 175w for 4750 GPH
RD3 230 is 230 watts for 6400 GPH at a 0’ head. It’s more like 6600 GPH at 0’ head or in closed loop because they were rated very conservatively.

I will preface this by saying that I paid full price for all my equipment. I bought my current pumps before I took a role with Royal Exclusiv. While I may appear biased because of my affiliation, I run what I feel is best for my system in terms of flow, efficiency and my needs.

Having said that, I run two RD3’s on my system. One for my return and one for my closed loop. I’ve been running an RD3 230 on my closed loop since they were first released over 2 years ago and they make an insanely good closed loop pump. In fact, it beats the you know what out of the Super Dart Gold it replaced. In reality, it’s not even close. The Super Dart pulled 184 watts (measured with the Kill-A-Watt) and the RD3 230 pushes more flow at 150 watts. Yea, the Dart isn’t an Ampmaster but the Superdart is comparable to the Ampmaster 4750. At the end of the day, I think the RD3’s are much more efficient than the Ampmasters in terms of watts per gallon. Especially if you step up to the big Ampmasters. Heck, you can have a pair of RD3 230’s pushing nearly double the flow of one Ampmaster 7200 for less wattage than the single Ampmaster 7200 or 6250 for that matter.

I have my RD3 230 closed loop pump controlled by my Apex and change the flow from day to night and also have it synced with my Tunze’s when they go into flush mode. My closed loop dumps out under my rocks via a manifold and when the Tunze’s go into flush mode with the RD3, anything that could have settled under or near the rocks or on the bottom of the tank is blasted out into the water column.


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Last edited by slief; 11/15/2017 at 05:43 PM.
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Old 11/15/2017, 05:45 PM   #6
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You have always come off as a professional and not a shill. In an modern environment where many do not, it is very much appreciated.

How do you think that they will last? I have AmpMasters that are more than a decade old with absolutely no issues. They do push a lot of water in a CL, but I imagine that the RD3 230 does too... it will send a stream across a 8' tank that will move the sand back 30 inches if unchecked.


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Old 11/15/2017, 06:57 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by jda View Post
You have always come off as a professional and not a shill. In an modern environment where many do not, it is very much appreciated.

How do you think that they will last? I have AmpMasters that are more than a decade old with absolutely no issues. They do push a lot of water in a CL, but I imagine that the RD3 230 does too... it will send a stream across a 8' tank that will move the sand back 30 inches if unchecked.
Thank you for the kind words. I walk a fine line because of my affiliation but I always try to be unbiased since I am always will be a hobbyist first.

Longevity is a good question. Sspecially since, when it comes to pumps, there are some very fine examples to compare to. Those examples have a very long and solid history in our hobby where as the RD3 230 has only been on the market for around 2.5 years now. This is going to be a long answer as I tend to be long winded and it’s kind of a loaded question.

I’m on about 2.5 years with my two RD3 230’s without a hiccup. Since I handle support on them, I’m aware of the failure frequency here in the US and to date, there have been only 2 controller failures that I can recall and no motor failures. One of those controller issues was the backlighting and the other was technically a DOA with a non responsive menu button. There might be another one that I can’t remember and one guy brought in an impeller that was destroyed which he clearly dropped (even though he denied it) because it was grenaded but we did him a service and replaced it under warranty since he was a good customer. The only other issues I’ve seen with them were early on and packaging related. There were a handful of pumps that arrived with cracked AKB’s where the back of the pump hit the side of the box during transit and snapped the stem that the bypass tube connects to at the back of the block. The packaging has since been changed to address that.

What I can say since I’ve had my hands on all kinds of pumps is that these pumps are VERY heavy well built pumps. Nothing like any other DC pump on the market in terms of mass and feel. The magnets are huge too which speaks volumes about the power of the motor. Point being that they are built very well and there really are no compromises in these pumps that can been seen or felt. The controller which is the one gray area is very robust too in that it’s built into a very nice and large aluminum casing and is designed to dissipate heat. As such, all I can do is speculate given it’s construction and the failure rate or lack of. I think these pumps will last a long long time. And I will be honest, I am not a fan of DC pumps for return pumps and would normally avoid them but these pumps are different and I trust my system to one for my return. I still however keep one of my Superdarts plumbed with matching unions as a spare just in case. That said, I’ve run Reeflo’s for many many years. I always loved those pumps. I’ve had Iwaki’s in the past that I removed after 10 years of running. Not because they failed but because I wanted greater efficiency. I have a 25 or so year old little giant 4MDQ on my mixing tank that served as a closed loop pump on my current display many years back. I loved the Reeflo’s because they were built to last and my only gripe with them was the seals of which I kept spares along with spare pumps and would swap pumps replace seals myself as needed. You can’t kill an Iwaki but they are noisy, inefficient and transfer a fair amount of heat. For me, I was after, quiet, efficiency, little to no heat transfer and reliability. The RD3’s have proven to be quiet, efficient and don’t transfer heat relative to other pumps. So far, they have proven reliable but given how long I’ve been in this hobby and how long I’ve owned pumps in the past, I can only hope my RD3 230’s will last as long as a Reeflo motor let alone an Iwaki. It may not happen but I don’t have any reason to think they won’t last a long long time.

All things considered, for me, power savings in my system wasn’t just about the watts the pump draws. Back in 2010, my electric bill was around $1100 a month. I had a hodge podge of pumps ranging from Iwaki’s, Little Giants and Lim Wave Baldor based pond style pumps not unlike the Ampmasters. My 1/2HP chiller was running 12 hours a day. At that time, I decided to do some major upgrades and I spent a small fortune (several thousand) on those upgrades to my system. Those upgrades included new sump/refugium, new pumps including a bunch of Tunze’s to replace a couple closed loop pumps, lights, chiller etc. One of the major goals was obviously efficiency. Ditching the inefficient pumps, halides, etc while streamlining my sump setup. When I was done, my chiller was no longer needed and my electric bill dropped to $4000 a month. I shaved thousands of watts of my system and increased my flow throughout my system substantially. I was honestly shocked and what seemed like a fortune at the time paid for itself the first year and has since paid for itself ten fold. Best of all, my tanks health improved by leaps and bounds as well. I am always trying to find ways to make my tank more efficient while not compromising quality and now have my electric bill down to $350 a month. As I said above, I am not a fan of DC pumps for return pumps and wouldn’t have put one of these on my return if I didn’t believe whole heartedly in them. Granted, these are not a traditional DC pump in that they don’t use DC voltage to the motor. It’s actually low current AC voltage which eliminates a point of failure because you don’t have the typical AC to DC conversion. As such, I have to believe these pumps will last quite a long time. The only question would be the controller side but they too are well made. Ultimately time will tell. Unlike a pump like an Iwaki or even the Dolphins that are essentially timeless and see little to no change in the model cycle or a Reeflo that only see’s motor changes, a pump like an RD3 inevitably will see model changes over the years so while I don’t expect a pump like the RD3 230 to be timeless, I can only hope (and have reasonable expectations) that they will last until I am ready for the next upgrade which I don’t anticipate being anytime soon. Especially since I am very happy with my system and equipment choices as it sits now.

At the end of the day, I’d never fault somebody for running a Reeflo, Iwaki or Dolphin. I think they are great pumps and for the most part bullet proof. In my world here on the forum or doing installs, every application or customer has different needs but most are price conscious. I do enough tank installs and don’t install that many RD3’s. This is in large part because most customers want the least expensive equipment they can get and because of that, I end up recommending almost everything but RD3’s. More often than not in those cases, Reeflo and Iwaki’s are first choice, Fluval SP series is another one I recommend all the time because I love that block. Now if somebody wants a super powerful solid built pump and price isn’t a concern, then the RD3’s would be my first suggestion unless the system has insanely high head pressure in which case, I’d recommend the Abyzz pumps since these handle super high head pressure better than almost any other pumps on the market. I will also say, having handled the Abyzz pumps on numerous occasions that I think the RD3 compares very favorably to the Abyzz pumps in any application under 20’ of head. Especially since there is now RD3 pressure pumps but still, the Abyzz absoltely has it’s place in the market despite it price tag.


All said and done and affiliations aside, I really love my RD3’s and there honestly isn’t a pump I would trade them out for at this point. I hope to feel the same way another few years down the road.

Damn, that was a much longer response than I thought it would be. LOL


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Current Tank Info: 480G display mixed reef, 90G sump, 90G refugium, 60G display refugium. Check out my build thread: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1783476

Last edited by slief; 11/15/2017 at 07:12 PM.
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Old 11/17/2017, 08:36 PM   #8
marinelife
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I will be getting an RD3 230W within a week. Watching the Black Friday sales
The Abyzz is nice but I have yet to get support to answer me after I messed up the plumbing. My fault and I want to buy a part but no one response from them.

I will get a second closed loop going with the RD3 and I may even in the future make my return an RD3 at a lower watt.


So a question about the RD3 230W. Is there an issue if the water comes out of the tank and then down to the pump with 2 street 90s? It's a 2" bulkhead and I had to have the pump lower than the bulkhead because of a shelf I had.


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Old 11/17/2017, 09:28 PM   #9
slief
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Originally Posted by marinelife View Post
I will be getting an RD3 230W within a week. Watching the Black Friday sales
The Abyzz is nice but I have yet to get support to answer me after I messed up the plumbing. My fault and I want to buy a part but no one response from them.

I will get a second closed loop going with the RD3 and I may even in the future make my return an RD3 at a lower watt.


So a question about the RD3 230W. Is there an issue if the water comes out of the tank and then down to the pump with 2 street 90s? It's a 2" bulkhead and I had to have the pump lower than the bulkhead because of a shelf I had.
No issues using the street 90’s. This assuming you are talking about the ones that are a nice smooth bend instead of a sharp 90. Those and long turn elbows result in less head/friction loss which is always a good thing. FWIW, I run two of the 230’s on my system. Both are hard plumbed and both are silent and vibration free.


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Old Yesterday, 09:36 AM   #10
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I am thinking about my flow, currently have 4 280 gyre pumps and 2 6105 streams in my 375 plus a Ecotech L1 on a closed loop with Penductors on the ends. The L1 sucks and is being replaced with an Abyzz A200 this week.
I have the ability to add a second closed loop and was thinking of removing the gyres and adding the second closed loop run by a red dragon 3 230watt pump or another Abyzz.
Would the abyzz and red dragon 3 with Penductors and the streams be enough for sps corals in a 375?

The gyres are great but the noise level is driving us nuts at night.
Whats wrong with your L1?
I hear they dont do well on closed loops?


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Old Yesterday, 06:30 PM   #11
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I am on my second one, first one froze up, the second one is making a noise and starting to act the same. Looks like it will need to go back for repair.


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Old Yesterday, 06:34 PM   #12
Dmorty217
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Whats wrong with your L1?
I hear they dont do well on closed loops?
Ecotech just sent me my 4th one now. They all seize up within 9 months


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Old Yesterday, 06:53 PM   #13
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RD3 230W will be here Tuesday but I will not get it installed until maybe the weekend. I have too plan out the plumbing and redo the plumbing on the Abyzz.

I will be submitting a ticket to Ecotech for a replacement pump tomorrow.


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Old Today, 10:24 AM   #14
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Ecotech just sent me my 4th one now. They all seize up within 9 months
Didnt know they were this bad. How are you running them? Will it do better if they are ran in a sump, underwater? I heard more issues when they are ran dry in closed loops.


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Old Today, 11:52 AM   #15
marinelife
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Didnt know they were this bad. How are you running them? Will it do better if they are ran in a sump, underwater? I heard more issues when they are ran dry in closed loops.
Mine always get hot, I can not imagine having them in water, would heat the tank some.


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