Reef Central Online Community

Home Forum Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences View New Posts View Today's Posts

Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Search Reefkeeping ...an online magazine for marine aquarists Support our sponsors and mention Reef Central

Go Back   Reef Central Online Community > General Interest Forums > Reef Discussion
Register Blogs FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read

Notices

User Tag List

Reply
Thread Tools
Old 03/21/2018, 03:30 PM   #1
RioReefr
Registered Member
 
RioReefr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Rio de Janeiro
Posts: 259
No light or 1% blue at night?

This has been bothering me a bit.... I currently run my LED at 1% Royal-Blue from 10pm - 8am as a night-light.

It serves as a night-light in my living room so I don't bump into anything when I get up and I had read the fish *like* a little light at night, so they don't get spooked with total darkness.
I have overhanging rockwork that offers most of the fish almost complete darkness (if they want it).....certainly my Dottyback and Damselfish practically disappear into the rocks at night and I never see them after 8pm.

Should I give the fish a few hour of total darkness or does it not matter?


RioReefr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03/21/2018, 03:40 PM   #2
ROB2005
Reefing Is My Passion!
 
ROB2005's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Miami, FL
Posts: 695
That's totally up to you. I personally don't use any lights at night for my tank. I personally like to let them sleep without any light intrusion. Happy Reefing!


__________________
If at first you don't succeed at reefing, break it down and set back up😁

Current Tank Info: 75 gallon corner overflow, 4-54W T-5 , dozen blue hermits, tiger pistol/yellow watchman gobby, royal gramma, yellowhead hawkish, dispar anthias
ROB2005 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03/21/2018, 03:48 PM   #3
mcgyvr
Registered Member
 
mcgyvr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 17,187
It does not matter...
There is no need to give the fish total darkness...


__________________
Being blunt and having fun
mcgyvr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03/21/2018, 03:50 PM   #4
Tripod1404
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,737
Quote:
Originally Posted by RioReefr View Post
I had read the fish *like* a little light at night, so they don't get spooked with total darkness.
This is wrong. Ocean gets pitch black during the night even when there is a full moon. I always give at least 8H of complete darkness to the tank. Fish would probably not care much but it is more critical for corals and nocturnal organisms since they are very sensitive to blue light.


Tripod1404 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03/21/2018, 04:00 PM   #5
RioReefr
Registered Member
 
RioReefr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Rio de Janeiro
Posts: 259
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tripod1404 View Post
This is wrong. Ocean gets pitch black during the night even when there is a full moon. I always give at least 8H of complete darkness to the tank. Fish would probably not care much but it is more critical for corals and nocturnal organisms since they are very sensitive to blue light.
Tripod.

I have some Hammer Corals that I never see them totally retract their polyps, could this actually be detrimental to them because it never goes dark??
As some other members have said "does not matter" to the fish, but I think maybe you are onto something with the "other" animals.

I am really thinking about getting a screen on my open tank, then start slow with the LED by giving it total darkness. Does this sound right?

Even 1% Royal Blue LED is enough to offer the living room light to see.


RioReefr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03/21/2018, 05:01 PM   #6
Tripod1404
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,737
Quote:
Originally Posted by RioReefr View Post
Tripod.

I have some Hammer Corals that I never see them totally retract their polyps, could this actually be detrimental to them because it never goes dark??
As some other members have said "does not matter" to the fish, but I think maybe you are onto something with the "other" animals.

I am really thinking about getting a screen on my open tank, then start slow with the LED by giving it total darkness. Does this sound right?

Even 1% Royal Blue LED is enough to offer the living room light to see.

Some corals do not fully retract their polyps at night. I have hammers that fully close and other hammers that just get a little smaller. I doubt it is related to light. You can try to see if making it all dark makes it fully retract.

I agree that fish probably dont care that much if it is completely dark or there is 1% blue. But I would guess they would be less stressed in completely dark than in 1% blue. When we transport fish, it is always advised to do in in a dark box, in order to reduce stress. It is more stressful on animals if they "see" but just barely, rather than not being aware of whats going on.

About other animals ,including corals, and organisms. Even having tiny bit of light can cause different behaviors. Like my copepods and amphipods never come out when moonlight are on and only appear after complete darkness. When I want to observe them, I use a red flashlight as using a regular one causes them to hide. Some planktonic "life", including single cells organisms, would also only become motile under complete darkness.

Corals are particularly sensitive to little bit of light during the night because that is how they synchronize their breeding to full moon. If you ever dived during the night, you would know about 5 feet below the water ocean looks equally dark to the human eye during full moon or no moon. But corals can detect these minute changes in light. Now a 1% blue moon light is orders of magnitude brighter than what they are able to detect in the nature. So they definitely register that as "not-dark". How much that effects them, I dont know. But I am a firm believer that imitating nature is the least stressful way of keeping animals in captivity.


Also blue light can mess up their biological clock of organisms. Internal clock of almost all organisms from humans to bacteria are calibrated based on blue light intensity. It is the same reason why looking at a blue screen can reduce sleepiness even in humans.


Tripod1404 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03/21/2018, 05:24 PM   #7
EMeyer
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 140
This comes up a lot and I never understand it.

Theres no question that imitating nature means complete darkness for most or all of every night. There is a lack of data on whether the unnatural exposure to 24 hr light with dim blue LEDs at night harms anything.

What I dont understand is: why would anyone want to do this? Youre asleep so you wont see it, theres no reason to think it would benefit the animals.

Then again, for the life of me I cannot wrap my head around why my wife insists on leaving the porch light on all night. So I guess ignore my curmodgeonly ramblings.

/turns the lights off on his way out


EMeyer is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03/21/2018, 05:42 PM   #8
Joe0813
Registered Member
 
Joe0813's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Boston strong
Posts: 2,633
my blues turn off about a hour after the radions dim. so the tank is completely dark all night


__________________
Joe and Jenny

Current Tank Info: 180 reef
Joe0813 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03/21/2018, 06:34 PM   #9
RioReefr
Registered Member
 
RioReefr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Rio de Janeiro
Posts: 259
Thanks guys. I would really like to imitate nature as much as possible since I have programmable LED. BUT, being relatively new, I had read numerous posts that states that fish have a greater tendency "to jump out of the tank" if they are in total darkness. Something about them getting scared/spooked by something...swimming UP fast...out they go. Since my tank is open, I did not want any "jumpers".

I am going to start turning off the LED lights (even the 1%) once I get my mesh screen...just give me piece of mind when sleeping. As mentioned, the main reason for doing this is because I thought it was helping the fish from jumping out.


RioReefr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03/21/2018, 06:40 PM   #10
Daddi0
Registered Member
 
Daddi0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: West Coast
Posts: 616
My son like his blues on all night so we run his tank nocturnal. Lights come on at 4pm and whites turn off at 10pm, blues off at 7am, and dark from 7am - 4pm. We used to run the lights all day & night but the corals look happier with a little dark time and some of them only feed in the dark.
Cheers! Mark


__________________
Dual 65g display reefs sharing a 30g cryptic refug and 30g sump
29g reef - 100g cichlid tank - 45g goldfish tank - 55g tropical
Daddi0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03/21/2018, 07:18 PM   #11
Member No. 1
Ver. 2.1
 
Member No. 1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Rehoboth, MA
Posts: 1,528
Then there are some of us that use the Lunar table in Apex to mimic the lunar
cycle. Some nights it's on, others nights it's off depending on the moon phase in my local.


__________________
Pete
"I never make mistakes...
I thought I did once, but I was wrong"

Current Tank Info: In the process - http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2661614
Member No. 1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03/21/2018, 07:37 PM   #12
Trigger Tough
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 69
I run my royal blues on my Hydra26s from 10pm to midnight starting at 10% and going to 0% until 10am. My opinion is to do it for a few hours then turn it off for the rest of the night


Trigger Tough is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03/21/2018, 07:46 PM   #13
ramseynb
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: New Braunfels, TX
Posts: 647
Quote:
Originally Posted by Member No. 1 View Post
Then there are some of us that use the Lunar table in Apex to mimic the lunar
cycle. Some nights it's on, others nights it's off depending on the moon phase in my local.
I use the lunar feature with my Radion. I keep the moonlights at 2% all night but have been meaning to change it. I like having that ambient light. It's more for me and not for the corals/fish. The LPS I currently have definitely know it's night as they all open up and send out sweeper tentacles. Most of my fish do too as they go lay down in their spot. My cardinal fish seem to just stay out all the time though.

I do agree that total darkness does something to fish. It puts them into a heavy sleep. The best acclimation for fish is to keep it totally dark while you acclimate them (quickly!) and add them to the tank. I'll use a red light so I can see but they stay in a trance. If there's even a small amount of light, most fish will start stressing. It's hard to avoid though since I have my tank in the living room and have a bunch of windows.


ramseynb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03/21/2018, 07:59 PM   #14
RioReefr
Registered Member
 
RioReefr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Rio de Janeiro
Posts: 259
Quote:
Originally Posted by Member No. 1 View Post
Then there are some of us that use the Lunar table in Apex to mimic the lunar
cycle. Some nights it's on, others nights it's off depending on the moon phase in my local.
I have an AI Prime HD LED light, which has a "lunar cycle" -- but, basically it only works from 3% (full-moon) down to 0% (new-moon). Personally, I did not like the 3% bc I thought was too much light.

I am going to slowly cut back on the night light and allow the tank some total darkness. Some 0% light seems the natural way to go.


RioReefr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03/21/2018, 08:28 PM   #15
ajoe
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by RioReefr View Post
Thanks guys. I would really like to imitate nature as much as possible since I have programmable LED. BUT, being relatively new, I had read numerous posts that states that fish have a greater tendency "to jump out of the tank" if they are in total darkness. Something about them getting scared/spooked by something...swimming UP fast...out they go. Since my tank is open, I did not want any "jumpers".

I am going to start turning off the LED lights (even the 1%) once I get my mesh screen...just give me piece of mind when sleeping. As mentioned, the main reason for doing this is because I thought it was helping the fish from jumping out.
A plan is born. There is always a little ambient light leaking in from somewhere regardless but definitely get a mesh screen on there asap. When you least expect it you will find someone on the floor one day. Never a good thing.


ajoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03/21/2018, 08:31 PM   #16
ramseynb
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: New Braunfels, TX
Posts: 647
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajoe View Post
A plan is born. There is always a little ambient light leaking in from somewhere regardless but definitely get a mesh screen on there asap. When you least expect it you will find someone on the floor one day. Never a good thing.
For sure. There's not much worse than finding your favorite fish that you've had for years dried up and stuck in the carpet. A DIY screen top made from window screen material and pond netting is super simple.


ramseynb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03/21/2018, 10:18 PM   #17
ca1ore
Grizzled & Cynical

 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Stamford, CT
Posts: 17,285
Quote:
Originally Posted by Member No. 1 View Post
Then there are some of us that use the Lunar table in Apex to mimic the lunar
cycle. Some nights it's on, others nights it's off depending on the moon phase in my local.
Yep. Full moon on the reef is most definitely not pitch black, as anyone who has done a night dive can attest. I think even the Apex string is too bright though.


__________________
Simon

Got back into the hobby ..... planned to keep it simple ..... yeah, right ..... clearly I need a new plan! Pet peeve: anemones host clowns; clowns do not host anemones!

Current Tank Info: 450 Reef; 120 refugium; 60 Frag Tank, 30 Introduction tank; multiple QTs
ca1ore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03/21/2018, 11:27 PM   #18
Tripod1404
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,737
Quote:
Originally Posted by ca1ore View Post
Yep. Full moon on the reef is most definitely not pitch black, as anyone who has done a night dive can attest. I think even the Apex string is too bright though.
I have done many full moon or no moon dives. It is pitch black 50 feet below water regardless of full moon or no moon. And on average reefs are 100 feet deep.

Light intensity LED moon lights create is closer to dawn and dusk rather than actual moonlight


Tripod1404 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03/22/2018, 12:07 AM   #19
ca1ore
Grizzled & Cynical

 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Stamford, CT
Posts: 17,285
There certainly are reefs 100 feet down, and of course they're going to be very dark at night; but the majority of the corals I keep, at least, are much shallower so my approach is to try to replicate THAT environment. As I noted, I do think most of the moonlight LED are too bright. I use three diode string over my 450 and actually scale it back from there.


__________________
Simon

Got back into the hobby ..... planned to keep it simple ..... yeah, right ..... clearly I need a new plan! Pet peeve: anemones host clowns; clowns do not host anemones!

Current Tank Info: 450 Reef; 120 refugium; 60 Frag Tank, 30 Introduction tank; multiple QTs
ca1ore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03/22/2018, 09:04 AM   #20
Uncle99
Crab Free Zone
 
Uncle99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,688
Since I have no night marauders, I have gone dark for 15 hours daily for more than 25 years. I want the corals to rest from their photosynthesis process. 1-2 watts doesn't matter.


Uncle99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03/22/2018, 10:09 AM   #21
cincyjim
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 1,127
I believe in providing some moonlight as I want my animals to be able to spot something creeping up on them. Just saying.


__________________
Jim

Current Tank Info: SCA 150G, 5 inch sand bed, 2 Tunze 6095s, 6 lamp T5 @ 54w each with 2 all Blue Reefbrites, and Continuous Water Change System
cincyjim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03/22/2018, 10:16 AM   #22
EMeyer
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by ca1ore View Post
Yep. Full moon on the reef is most definitely not pitch black, as anyone who has done a night dive can attest. I think even the Apex string is too bright though.
I've done dozens of night dives on coral reefs during the full moon. Its pitch black. Like close yourself in the closet, turn off the lights, close your eyes and wear a blindfold pitch black.

Again, I think it probably doesnt matter much but what people call "moonlight" on aquariums looks absolutely nothing like moonlight in nature. Our bue LEDs are there to excite fluorescent proteins and make our corals look colorful. Its nothing like a simulation of real moonlight on a reef.

In nature, marine animals encounter effectively complete darkness every night.


EMeyer is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03/22/2018, 11:16 AM   #23
ca1ore
Grizzled & Cynical

 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Stamford, CT
Posts: 17,285
We shall have to agree to disagree. What I do think is laregely inarguable is that the majority of the artificial moonlights you can buy are far too bright.


__________________
Simon

Got back into the hobby ..... planned to keep it simple ..... yeah, right ..... clearly I need a new plan! Pet peeve: anemones host clowns; clowns do not host anemones!

Current Tank Info: 450 Reef; 120 refugium; 60 Frag Tank, 30 Introduction tank; multiple QTs
ca1ore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03/22/2018, 07:56 PM   #24
OrionN
Anemones
 
OrionN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Coastal Texas
Posts: 15,366
I keep my minimal light at night. I program my Radions with A (7 lights) and B program. One of the 8 lights is on the B program, which is Identical but I turn the moonlight program is on. Just one light on moon light is the lowest amount of light I can use. Leave all 8 light on at 1% is too much IMO.


__________________
Minh

My homepage is my album here at Reef Central

Current Tank Info: Reboot 320 anemones reef. Angels: Yellow Chest Regal(2), Flame (2). Copperband But. Tangs: Yellow, Purple. Wrasse: about 20 wrasses various species. Anemones: Giantea X4 (Breen, Blue, Purple and Multicolors), Haddoni X1 Red, Magnifica X1 Purpletip
OrionN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03/22/2018, 08:32 PM   #25
cody6766
Super Best Friends!
 
cody6766's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: OKC, OK
Posts: 3,503
I've haven't used moon lights on all of my tanks. Most of my jumpers have taken their carpet plunge during the day, with the lights on and while I'm at work. Moonlights or not, fish and coral all acted the same. I think they're more for us than the livestock.


__________________
"The moral is the chosen, not the forced; the understood, not the obeyed. The moral is the rational, and reason accepts no commandments." - John Galt

Current Tank Info: Cadlights 60G Arisan II mixed reef with 2x MP40s and 2x Kessil A350s
cody6766 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:54 AM.


TapaTalk Enabled

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2018 Axivo Inc.
Use of this web site is subject to the terms and conditions described in the user agreement.
Reef CentralTM Reef Central, LLC. Copyright 1999-2014
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.