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Old 07/20/2017, 03:04 PM   #26
sde1500
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Originally Posted by Tripod1404 View Post
Wow, we have nothing to argue here after this much of anti-intellectualism. If someone didn't sit and watched how mold was growing, people would still be dying from bacterial infections.


As a casual observer I had considered it more of a conversation than an argument. No reason to devolve to personal attacks.


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Old 07/20/2017, 03:42 PM   #27
Tripod1404
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As a casual observer I had considered it more of a conversation than an argument. No reason to devolve to personal attacks.
It was not a personal attack, I didn't call anyone not-intellectual or ignorant. But a statement like "climate scientist are a bunch of people who just look at the thermometers" is clearly an anti-intellectual statement. A person can be very intellectual but support anti-intellectualism.

From wikipedia; Anti-intellectualism is hostility to and mistrust of intellect, intellectuals, and intellectualism commonly expressed as deprecation of education and philosophy, and the dismissal of art, literature, and science as impractical and even contemptible human pursuits.


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Old 07/21/2017, 05:48 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Tripod1404 View Post
It was not a personal attack, I didn't call anyone not-intellectual or ignorant. But a statement like "climate scientist are a bunch of people who just look at the thermometers" is clearly an anti-intellectual statement. A person can be very intellectual but support anti-intellectualism.

From wikipedia; Anti-intellectualism is hostility to and mistrust of intellect, intellectuals, and intellectualism commonly expressed as deprecation of education and philosophy, and the dismissal of art, literature, and science as impractical and even contemptible human pursuits.
What I meant was since I am 57 years old I have seen winters here in south Texas with a seven degree winter day. From getting snow every few years, to no measurable snow in 32 years at my home. From reading as a child that the earth is cooling to now read and know the earths temps are increasing. What I have an issue with is people who claim and scream Global warming and then do nothing themselves to help fix the problem. It disgust me everyday when I see the amount of trash on our city, county, and state roads and highways. Or going to the beach and see a pile of trash not 10' from a trash can because of lazy idiots. Humans, we are our own best and worst enemy at messing up our World. The Great Barrier Reef is an Awesome site, I love watching videos and TV shows showing it. But like someone stated just like Hawaii how much of the demise is do to Pollution and the laziness of our government to properly clean the water before dumping it in our ocean? A bunch of the sewer lines here where I work are in creek beds, every time there is a flood manhole covers pop off and raw sewage finds its way into the creek, then to the rivers and finally the Gulf of Mexico. You are right about one thing, "Trust" is hard to come by these days.


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Old 07/21/2017, 08:00 AM   #29
sde1500
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Originally Posted by Tripod1404 View Post
It was not a personal attack, I didn't call anyone not-intellectual or ignorant. But a statement like "climate scientist are a bunch of people who just look at the thermometers" is clearly an anti-intellectual statement. A person can be very intellectual but support anti-intellectualism.
Personal attack may have been the wrong way to put it sorry. But I didn't take what he said as an attack on climate scientists, more along the lines of what he further elaborated on below.

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What I meant was since I am 57 years old I have seen winters here in south Texas with a seven degree winter day. From getting snow every few years, to no measurable snow in 32 years at my home. From reading as a child that the earth is cooling to now read and know the earths temps are increasing. What I have an issue with is people who claim and scream Global warming and then do nothing themselves to help fix the problem. It disgust me everyday when I see the amount of trash on our city, county, and state roads and highways. Or going to the beach and see a pile of trash not 10' from a trash can because of lazy idiots. Humans, we are our own best and worst enemy at messing up our World. The Great Barrier Reef is an Awesome site, I love watching videos and TV shows showing it. But like someone stated just like Hawaii how much of the demise is do to Pollution and the laziness of our government to properly clean the water before dumping it in our ocean? A bunch of the sewer lines here where I work are in creek beds, every time there is a flood manhole covers pop off and raw sewage finds its way into the creek, then to the rivers and finally the Gulf of Mexico. You are right about one thing, "Trust" is hard to come by these days.
I absolutely agree. It blows my mind how some people have managed to become the face of the Climate change crusade, all the while being nothing more than glaringly obvious hypocrites. Al Gore and Leonardo DiCaprio telling us peasants to consume less, scolding us for our polluting ways, and talking down to us as if everyone is so dumb. All the while flying around on private jets, living in huge mansions using absurd amounts of electricity, and being photographed hanging out alone on 200+ foot yachts.

I absolutely believe we can do more to protect this earth, we should start with holding these idiots accountable for their "do as we say not as we do" attitudes.

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Me too.



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Old 07/21/2017, 08:02 AM   #30
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But just to be clear here the fault is equally with those that acknowledge man made climate change and then hop into their new two ton Tesla instead of taking the bicycle or walk... or turn on the AC when it's getting hot...
..... or run an energy-hog of a reef tank . Though in my 'defense' I don't burn incandescent bulbs anymore, rarely run the A/C and make my kids grow their own food .....


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Old 07/21/2017, 08:08 AM   #31
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This is a big urban legend. Very little money is donated to academic researchers from private sector. Any company rich enough to have money for science will either have its own R&D department or it is some type off a "Technology" company that makes money out of research (like many pharma and biotech companies).

Most of research money for academic institutions comes from government grants. I am a professional scientist and it is quite funny that people think we swim in money. You need to work on proposals for years to get even the smallest amounts of grant money. And no, we dont personally get any part of the grant money. Our salaries are set by the academic institution. Even if you get a $50 million dollar grant, your salary will not change. I am saying this because I have met with people claiming scientist say there is global warming to get grants, so that they can get rich.

Of course companies like Exon do "pseudoscience" under their so called R&D departments, but can we honestly trust a oil company to make unbiased research on climate change? When you look at scientific data on climate change, look at the number of articles that comes from academic sources. How many academic sources claim climate change is not real?

And what I dont understand is why do we need a spokesman. Science is based on facts, not beliefs. Would anyone disagree with gravity if there is a great spokesman against gravity and would that make gravity unreal. Like Neil deGrasse Tyson said “The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.”

Btw, southern hemisphere and Antarctica are also getting warmer. If you average out whole southern hemisphere, it is clearly getting warmer. Southern hemisphere is much more ocean and much less land, so climate there is less prone to extremes. This makes the climate there to appear more stable. Coastal Antarctica is getting warmer, it is not having the same amount of sea-ice around the continent in Antarctic winter. It is true that the interior Antarctica is getting colder but that is mainly because of the shifts in ocean currents and dominant winds due to ocean heating.
First of all I need to apologize, I should of led off with how long have you been studying Global warming, what have you found in your studies, and what are your thoughts on trying to fix/curtail the problem. If you you still feel offended by my statements once again I apologize. Sometimes I get carried away


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Old 07/22/2017, 10:37 AM   #32
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All things considered imho this thread is pretty measured and relaxed which I appreciate. I just returned from Belize and the damage is extensive. Out near the blue hole things look better but the shallow areas 10'+/- deep are in terrible shape. I'd guess 50%+ of the brain, elkhorn I saw was dead. All browned out. Sea fans galore.

I said in another post we're hobbyists who rely on data testing nitrates, phosphates, alk, calc, mag so I'm perplexed so many of us discount the data about climate change. We need to look at the data about the reefs, climate change and act now. Call me an alarmist. After last weeks trip I plead guilty. BTW so are some of old time dive masters I spoke to.


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