Reef Central Online Community
The Filter Guys

Home Forum Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences View New Posts View Today's Posts

Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Search Reefkeeping ...an online magazine for marine aquarists Support our sponsors and mention Reef Central

Go Back   Reef Central Online Community > General Interest Forums > Advanced Topics
Register Blogs FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read

Notices

User Tag List

Reply
Thread Tools
Old 07/25/2016, 05:31 PM   #8701
karimwassef
Registered Member
 
karimwassef's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 10,903


I can see this working with a ring of LED lights (inner donut ring) but with one source, it's not a large surface area or very efficient use of both sides of the screen?

Maybe if the screen rotates slowly over time to get some light all the way around? Still, the overall area seems small?

Could be ideal for a small tank?


__________________
Failure isn't an option It's a requirement. 660g 380inwall+280smp/surge S/L/Soft/Maxima/RBTA/Clown/Chromis/Anthias/Tang/Mandarin/Jawfish/Goby/Wrasse/D'back. DIY 12' Skimmer ActuatedSurge ConcreteScape
karimwassef is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07/25/2016, 05:35 PM   #8702
karimwassef
Registered Member
 
karimwassef's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 10,903
Quote:
Originally Posted by bheron View Post
Hey all, following the great detail and advice here I constructed my first ATS a few months ago. Seemed to work great, got some great growth. This is the kind of growth I was getting:



Eventually I got the Algae problem in my display tank totally under control and around the same time growth on my ATS seemed to stop. I didnt do any cleanings b/c I believe its seasoned. So I let it go for a few weeks. This is what it looks like today:

 photo IMG_2879 2_zps9xv82fkw.jpg

Besides the color the stuff feels like hard jelly or silicone. Kinda like a jellyfish.

Is this what happens when there's not enough nutrients to feed the ATS?
__
__
Are you feeding less? Do you have algae in your tank? How is your reef doing?


__________________
Failure isn't an option It's a requirement. 660g 380inwall+280smp/surge S/L/Soft/Maxima/RBTA/Clown/Chromis/Anthias/Tang/Mandarin/Jawfish/Goby/Wrasse/D'back. DIY 12' Skimmer ActuatedSurge ConcreteScape
karimwassef is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07/25/2016, 06:01 PM   #8703
bheron
Registered Member
 
bheron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Valley Forge, PA
Posts: 2,672
Quote:
Originally Posted by karimwassef View Post
Are you feeding less? Do you have algae in your tank? How is your reef doing?
I'm actually feeding more now. I had a huge excess nutrient problem (resulting from dealing with Dino's and using the dirty method something you're well versed on ). Now that the algae is my tank is gone and no more Dino's too I'm thrilled!! My tank is just under two years old and have yet to really add my corals so technically a FOWLR and a DSB. I'm feeding every day now have about 8 fish in my 220.

So wondering if this junk is a result of high water flow and good LED lighting over my ATS but low nutrients maybe?


__________________
Bryan

Current Tank Info: 220 since Nov 2005
bheron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07/25/2016, 06:03 PM   #8704
Floyd R Turbo
Either busy or sleeping
 
Floyd R Turbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: West Des Moines, IA
Posts: 4,186
Blog Entries: 15
That type of growth is typically indicative of too much light compared to nutrients available. So you might want to back down the light period, and intensity if you can.


__________________
Algae Scrubber Basics!!! GOOGLE "algaescrubber zoho"
General Interest Forums --> Advanced Topics --> Algae Scrubber Basics (sticky)
--> POSTS #3251-64 (Basics), #5206 (Cleaning), #6884 (LEDs), #729
Floyd R Turbo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07/25/2016, 08:18 PM   #8705
karimwassef
Registered Member
 
karimwassef's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 10,903
Looks bacterial? Are you sure the dinos are gone?

Keep feeding until you see hints of hair algae in the DT.


__________________
Failure isn't an option It's a requirement. 660g 380inwall+280smp/surge S/L/Soft/Maxima/RBTA/Clown/Chromis/Anthias/Tang/Mandarin/Jawfish/Goby/Wrasse/D'back. DIY 12' Skimmer ActuatedSurge ConcreteScape
karimwassef is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07/26/2016, 09:38 AM   #8706
bheron
Registered Member
 
bheron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Valley Forge, PA
Posts: 2,672
Thanks all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by karimwassef View Post
Looks bacterial? Are you sure the dinos are gone?

Keep feeding until you see hints of hair algae in the DT.
Oh yea, I got well past that :-) I started the dirty method about 6-7 months ago and it worked like a charm. Dinos disappeared. Then a few weeks later got more than some hints of algae. The algae took over my DT. So then built the ATS. Eventually via export and the ATS the growth stopped. But wasn't until I took every piece of rock out of my tank and scrubbed it clean did I defeat it. DT has been algae free for about a month. About the same time the ATS stopped producing nice green algae. So I upped my feeding so that its normal feeding for my fish. And just today knocked my ATS lights down from 18 hours a day to 8.


__________________
Bryan

Current Tank Info: 220 since Nov 2005
bheron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07/27/2016, 11:54 PM   #8707
jason2459
Registered Member

 
jason2459's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Iowa
Posts: 9,738
Quote:
Originally Posted by Floyd R Turbo View Post
Took this video today - tutorial for making a Mortar Screen

Damn, the mortar screen is where it's at. There's already GHA attaching and starting to grow. Thank You Turbo Aquatics for sending me this replacement Kick @55 screen!

First week and first quick swipe













__________________
rebuild and recovery log:
No more red house, you'll have to click on my name and visit my homepage!

You can check out my parameters at reeftronics dot net website and look for my username.

Current Tank Info: 180g mixed reef w/ a beananimal overflow to a dolomite RRUGF. | 20g long G. Smithii Mantis Tank
jason2459 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07/28/2016, 10:05 AM   #8708
Floyd R Turbo
Either busy or sleeping
 
Floyd R Turbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: West Des Moines, IA
Posts: 4,186
Blog Entries: 15
Nice start! While everyone's scrubber seems to act differently, due to many factors I presume, I still see this rapid-start happen more frequently on tanks that have already had a scrubber running on them. What's interesting about your is that you took the scrubber off while you went through your dino experiment, didn't you? Or did you leave it on there?

Anyways, more and more often it does seem that a tank that has ran a scrubber for a while gets somewhat "conditioned", such that when the screen is replaced it rapidly matures. I've seen this with the mortar screen and also without it actually (with just a roughed up canvas screen).

I'm still waiting for that lotto hit so I can research this stuff, or pay someone to do it for me....


__________________
Algae Scrubber Basics!!! GOOGLE "algaescrubber zoho"
General Interest Forums --> Advanced Topics --> Algae Scrubber Basics (sticky)
--> POSTS #3251-64 (Basics), #5206 (Cleaning), #6884 (LEDs), #729
Floyd R Turbo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07/28/2016, 11:25 AM   #8709
jason2459
Registered Member

 
jason2459's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Iowa
Posts: 9,738
Yep I waited until after the dino vs metro testing.


__________________
rebuild and recovery log:
No more red house, you'll have to click on my name and visit my homepage!

You can check out my parameters at reeftronics dot net website and look for my username.

Current Tank Info: 180g mixed reef w/ a beananimal overflow to a dolomite RRUGF. | 20g long G. Smithii Mantis Tank
jason2459 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07/28/2016, 11:34 AM   #8710
karimwassef
Registered Member
 
karimwassef's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 10,903
hmmmm...

There is research that indicates that algae changes the environment's chemistry to suit their optimal growth. That may or may not conflict with what is optimal for coral.

Macroalgae seem to release chemicals that slow or inhibit the attachment of coral. I don't remember the article I read that, but it was recent.

I wonder if hair algae setting up shop for an extended duration in an ATS causes a chemical alignment so that the hair is well positioned in enough locations elsewhere that it can regenerate on a screen as soon as the opportunity presents itself.

I'm running three screens right now and it's interesting to watch the diversity of algae types and colors on them. One is LED lit, one is CFL lit and one is MH lit. Additionally, my quarantine tank has turned into a fourth ATS - probably due to the lack of herbivores and the strong light and constant water motion.

I should take some pictures of all four.


__________________
Failure isn't an option It's a requirement. 660g 380inwall+280smp/surge S/L/Soft/Maxima/RBTA/Clown/Chromis/Anthias/Tang/Mandarin/Jawfish/Goby/Wrasse/D'back. DIY 12' Skimmer ActuatedSurge ConcreteScape
karimwassef is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07/28/2016, 11:44 AM   #8711
Floyd R Turbo
Either busy or sleeping
 
Floyd R Turbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: West Des Moines, IA
Posts: 4,186
Blog Entries: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by karimwassef View Post
Macroalgae seem to release chemicals that slow or inhibit the attachment of coral. I don't remember the article I read that, but it was recent.
I hadn't read much about that, but I do think there is chemical warfare/allelopathy between different algaes. One of the reasons why carbon and/or a skimmer seems to really be helpful on heavy SPS tanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by karimwassef View Post
There is research that indicates that algae changes the environment's chemistry to suit their optimal growth. That may or may not conflict with what is optimal for coral.
Allelopathy here too quite possibly. The 'altering chemistry' would seem to fly in the face of the Redfield Ratio I would think, but if you're even seen a scrubber go through weird growth stages you would conclude that there must be conditions that tend to favor one type of algae growth over another, and you get type A growth under certain conditions, and type B under others, etc...until you hit a point of stability where one "wins"

Learning about this could really explain how some people can get growth that it knocked out of the park right away, while others take months to get there, or don't ever get there no matter what they try.

Quote:
Originally Posted by karimwassef View Post
I wonder if hair algae setting up shop for an extended duration in an ATS causes a chemical alignment so that the hair is well positioned in enough locations elsewhere that it can regenerate on a screen as soon as the opportunity presents itself.
I was thinking more short term, like replacing an old screen with a new one, not sure what would happen if a scrubber were removed for several weeks to several months, then returned like a new item (bare/new screen)


__________________
Algae Scrubber Basics!!! GOOGLE "algaescrubber zoho"
General Interest Forums --> Advanced Topics --> Algae Scrubber Basics (sticky)
--> POSTS #3251-64 (Basics), #5206 (Cleaning), #6884 (LEDs), #729
Floyd R Turbo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07/28/2016, 01:06 PM   #8712
hkgar
Registered Member
 
hkgar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Dewitt MI
Posts: 4,515
Quote:
Originally Posted by karimwassef View Post
hmmmm...

There is research that indicates that algae changes the environment's chemistry to suit their optimal growth. That may or may not conflict with what is optimal for coral.

Macroalgae seem to release chemicals that slow or inhibit the attachment of coral. I don't remember the article I read that, but it was recent.

I wonder if hair algae setting up shop for an extended duration in an ATS causes a chemical alignment so that the hair is well positioned in enough locations elsewhere that it can regenerate on a screen as soon as the opportunity presents itself.

I'm running three screens right now and it's interesting to watch the diversity of algae types and colors on them. One is LED lit, one is CFL lit and one is MH lit. Additionally, my quarantine tank has turned into a fourth ATS - probably due to the lack of herbivores and the strong light and constant water motion.

I should take some pictures of all four.
Sorry unrelated but something you wrote caught my attention. Are you inferring that your QT is part of the whole system and uses water that also flows through the DT and sump? I hope not.


__________________
Gary


180 gallon, 40 gallon sump, 8 ATI T5's, MTC MVX 36 Skimmer, Apex controller Reef Octopus CaRx

Current Tank Info: 2 Barred Rabbitfish, Red Head, Yellow/Purple, Hoevans, Possum, 2 Leopard Wrasses, Kole, Purple & Atlantic Blue Tangs, Matted Filefish, 2 Percula Clown, 4 PJ Cardinals, Swallowtail Angel
hkgar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07/28/2016, 02:29 PM   #8713
karimwassef
Registered Member
 
karimwassef's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 10,903
My QT can run both inline and offline (separate loop).

It's intentionally dual purpose.

This way, it has tank water ready when it's not being used as a QT. When I need QT, I close some loops and open others and it's isolated.

This makes moving sick coral or fish into it much easier (same chemistry).


__________________
Failure isn't an option It's a requirement. 660g 380inwall+280smp/surge S/L/Soft/Maxima/RBTA/Clown/Chromis/Anthias/Tang/Mandarin/Jawfish/Goby/Wrasse/D'back. DIY 12' Skimmer ActuatedSurge ConcreteScape
karimwassef is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07/28/2016, 03:18 PM   #8714
hkgar
Registered Member
 
hkgar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Dewitt MI
Posts: 4,515
Quote:
Originally Posted by karimwassef View Post
My QT can run both inline and offline (separate loop).

It's intentionally dual purpose.

This way, it has tank water ready when it's not being used as a QT. When I need QT, I close some loops and open others and it's isolated.

This makes moving sick coral or fish into it much easier (same chemistry).
Cool, thanks, now back to the original intent of the thread.


__________________
Gary


180 gallon, 40 gallon sump, 8 ATI T5's, MTC MVX 36 Skimmer, Apex controller Reef Octopus CaRx

Current Tank Info: 2 Barred Rabbitfish, Red Head, Yellow/Purple, Hoevans, Possum, 2 Leopard Wrasses, Kole, Purple & Atlantic Blue Tangs, Matted Filefish, 2 Percula Clown, 4 PJ Cardinals, Swallowtail Angel
hkgar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07/31/2016, 07:03 PM   #8715
DamonG
Registered Member
 
DamonG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 927
These were taken last week when I first began getting green algea. It's been a few years since I had a scrubber.. I'm trying to remember, and this is why I'm posting.. I think I need more flow in the areas that are lighter in color, because the water didn't flow as heavily. I'm wondering if this is the consensus? I think the slot in that area(it's doing the same on the front and back) needs to be widened just a smidge to allow more flow and the algea would grow like the rest of the screen.. What do you all think?




Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


DamonG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07/31/2016, 08:53 PM   #8716
Floyd R Turbo
Either busy or sleeping
 
Floyd R Turbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: West Des Moines, IA
Posts: 4,186
Blog Entries: 15
Might just be too early to tell. The clumps might have formed there because you had slightly more ideal conditions, like a bit rougher, light level is optimal, flow is optimal, etc.

Usually the rest of the screen will follow suit given time. I would grab the clumps of algae with your fingers and pull 50-75% of the clod off then swipe the yellow goo away with your hand and rinse, then put it back in action. You obviously have the right conditions for growing GHA because you are actually growing it in some spots lol it just will take a bit of time for the rest of the screen to catch up. At least that's my observation.

How long have you been running this screen?


__________________
Algae Scrubber Basics!!! GOOGLE "algaescrubber zoho"
General Interest Forums --> Advanced Topics --> Algae Scrubber Basics (sticky)
--> POSTS #3251-64 (Basics), #5206 (Cleaning), #6884 (LEDs), #729
Floyd R Turbo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07/31/2016, 09:20 PM   #8717
DamonG
Registered Member
 
DamonG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 927
Quote:
Originally Posted by Floyd R Turbo View Post
Might just be too early to tell. The clumps might have formed there because you had slightly more ideal conditions, like a bit rougher, light level is optimal, flow is optimal, etc.

Usually the rest of the screen will follow suit given time. I would grab the clumps of algae with your fingers and pull 50-75% of the clod off then swipe the yellow goo away with your hand and rinse, then put it back in action. You obviously have the right conditions for growing GHA because you are actually growing it in some spots lol it just will take a bit of time for the rest of the screen to catch up. At least that's my observation.

How long have you been running this screen?
Hymn.. Ok,I will try your suggestions for cleaning it.. I think it has been around 3 weeks at this point.. I was trying to wait to clean it, just because I thought the algea would fill in.. I can't remember the complete process from back then..

But I will clean it tomorrow..

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


DamonG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07/31/2016, 09:22 PM   #8718
DamonG
Registered Member
 
DamonG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 927
Quote:
Originally Posted by Floyd R Turbo View Post
Might just be too early to tell. The clumps might have formed there because you had slightly more ideal conditions, like a bit rougher, light level is optimal, flow is optimal, etc.

Usually the rest of the screen will follow suit given time. I would grab the clumps of algae with your fingers and pull 50-75% of the clod off then swipe the yellow goo away with your hand and rinse, then put it back in action. You obviously have the right conditions for growing GHA because you are actually growing it in some spots lol it just will take a bit of time for the rest of the screen to catch up. At least that's my observation.

How long have you been running this screen?
rinse the screen? Under saltwater correct?

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


DamonG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07/31/2016, 10:33 PM   #8719
SantaMonica
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Santa Monica, California, USA
Posts: 2,471
FW is fine, unless you are trying to save pods.


__________________
Inventor of the easy-to-DIY upflow scrubber, and also the waterfall scrubber that everyone loves to build:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1424843
SantaMonica is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08/01/2016, 10:17 AM   #8720
niladride
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Kolkata, India
Posts: 567
Hi Floyd and Santa Monica

I am still having lots of green algae in my DT, ATS is also having nice growth. I thing I have done the roughening up well but if you suggest, I can redo.

Either I am feeding too much or I feel the ATS is not big enough.


niladride is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08/01/2016, 12:51 PM   #8721
Spar
Registered Member
 
Spar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Plano, TX
Posts: 2,504
Re: LED lighting: what is the largest sized ATS screen a 6x12" heat sink could give area of coverage for?

I am hoping the answer will be independent of number of LED's, but just in case, I have 20 LED's on each unit (front and back units).


__________________
Cliff
450g Mixed SPS/LPS Reef (MH/T5/VHO)
10/20g Fish Quarantine (TTM)
20g Coral/Invert Quarantine (Fishless)
Spar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08/01/2016, 12:55 PM   #8722
SantaMonica
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Santa Monica, California, USA
Posts: 2,471
If a screen has lots of growth, then it is rough enough. Removing nutrients just takes time.

If a 6 x 12 heatsink has LEDs all the way to the edge, and it placed 6" from a screen, then the screen could probably be 10 x 14.


__________________
Inventor of the easy-to-DIY upflow scrubber, and also the waterfall scrubber that everyone loves to build:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1424843
SantaMonica is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08/01/2016, 03:23 PM   #8723
Spar
Registered Member
 
Spar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Plano, TX
Posts: 2,504
My LED's seem to be too intense, giving me a lot of yellow and bald spots on one side. I have tried lowering the photoperiod quite a bit but get the same result (14 hours on, 8 off).

I just ordered dimmable drivers. think i should go back to 18 hours and then go to 50% power and work my way up until the intensity is fine-tuned? or should I keep the photoperiod down as well? Any recommendations here would be helpful.


__________________
Cliff
450g Mixed SPS/LPS Reef (MH/T5/VHO)
10/20g Fish Quarantine (TTM)
20g Coral/Invert Quarantine (Fishless)
Spar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08/01/2016, 04:35 PM   #8724
Floyd R Turbo
Either busy or sleeping
 
Floyd R Turbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: West Des Moines, IA
Posts: 4,186
Blog Entries: 15
That sounds like a plan. I've found that adding in dimming ability makes a huge difference, especially on start-up. I think that being able to adjust the intensity so that you can run longer hours works much better than staggering the photoperiod.


__________________
Algae Scrubber Basics!!! GOOGLE "algaescrubber zoho"
General Interest Forums --> Advanced Topics --> Algae Scrubber Basics (sticky)
--> POSTS #3251-64 (Basics), #5206 (Cleaning), #6884 (LEDs), #729
Floyd R Turbo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08/05/2016, 12:21 AM   #8725
jason2459
Registered Member

 
jason2459's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Iowa
Posts: 9,738
Quote:
Originally Posted by jason2459 View Post
Damn, the mortar screen is where it's at. There's already GHA attaching and starting to grow. Thank You Turbo Aquatics for sending me this replacement Kick @55 screen!

First week and first quick swipe










Decided to hold off two weeks since the screen was already starting to get some good attachments.

Second cleaning and its looking great with a nice even layer on both sides.






I went ahead and bumped up the light intensity from half to full tonight. See how it responds to that. They are on I think for 14 hours. After the next cleaning depending on how it looks I'll start increasing the hours the lights are on.


__________________
rebuild and recovery log:
No more red house, you'll have to click on my name and visit my homepage!

You can check out my parameters at reeftronics dot net website and look for my username.

Current Tank Info: 180g mixed reef w/ a beananimal overflow to a dolomite RRUGF. | 20g long G. Smithii Mantis Tank
jason2459 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
algae scrubber/heavy metals charles matthews Randy Holmes-Farley 6 11/03/2016 09:32 PM
xenia scrubber instead of algae scrubber? dolt SPS Keepers 40 04/07/2011 12:34 PM
Try again: Is anybody running an algae scrubber as primary filter. Frick-n-Frags Reef Discussion 166 08/03/2008 04:58 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:46 PM.


TapaTalk Enabled

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2018 Axivo Inc.
Use of this web site is subject to the terms and conditions described in the user agreement.
Reef CentralTM Reef Central, LLC. Copyright 1999-2014
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.