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Old 01/04/2018, 11:24 AM   #9901
Pandagobyguy
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Can i use something like this Apollo Horticulture Purple Reign 6W MR16 LED https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01AAWXNLA..._FMMtAbQJSZWMS

Or this ABI 12W Deep Red 660nm https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01H2Y5U4M..._C9MtAb30A8M2C

7W Desk Clip Plant Grow light. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01ID6A1MO..._V.MtAbAK2CBGB

18W LED Grow Light https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MXK4HS0..._AdNtAbZ405BA3

On a UAS as lighting?

If not are there any cheap leds from amazon that are functional that dont require soldering etc.?

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Old 01/04/2018, 09:20 PM   #9902
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Quote:
the little algae attached to the screen was completelly White, what could have happened
Sounds like detachment. Common for waterfalls, in bigger screen sizes, if the lights can't burn through to the middle of the screen in order to let water in there. The bigger size has no way for water to get to the middle when it's full.

Quote:
horizontal scrubber
Quote:
Floating scrubber
Need first to clarify what type it is. A horizontal river is a trough, with a mesh on the bottom, and is 1-sided (the top). A floating one however is usually a bubble upflow, maybe with strings, which would be 2-sided.


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Old 01/05/2018, 10:43 AM   #9903
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SantaMonica View Post
Sounds like detachment. Common for waterfalls, in bigger screen sizes, if the lights can't burn through to the middle of the screen in order to let water in there. The bigger size has no way for water to get to the middle when it's full.



Need first to clarify what type it is. A horizontal river is a trough, with a mesh on the bottom, and is 1-sided (the top). A floating one however is usually a bubble upflow, maybe with strings, which would be 2-sided.

I would be using a horizontalfloating mesh (7 count canvas) with one side only lit from above, approx 10" away. It could possible have fine bubbles from wooden ayirstone, if helps at all.


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Old 01/05/2018, 10:45 AM   #9904
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Essentially this, except it will be in a black surround (to avoid light spill). Perhaps a powerhead to ensure it always has water passing over it.


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Old 01/05/2018, 02:20 PM   #9905
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandagobyguy View Post
Can i use something like this Apollo Horticulture Purple Reign 6W MR16 LED https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01AAWXNLA..._FMMtAbQJSZWMS

Or this ABI 12W Deep Red 660nm https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01H2Y5U4M..._C9MtAb30A8M2C

7W Desk Clip Plant Grow light. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01ID6A1MO..._V.MtAbAK2CBGB

18W LED Grow Light https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MXK4HS0..._AdNtAbZ405BA3

On a UAS as lighting?

If not are there any cheap leds from amazon that are functional that dont require soldering etc.?
I think any of these would be OK, they each have their subtle differences. What you want to do is match the screen size to the lamp size as best you can. A small lamp might output the wattage/intensity you need, but might be too focused and result in a hotspot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SantaMonica View Post
Sounds like detachment. Common for waterfalls, in bigger screen sizes, if the lights can't burn through to the middle of the screen in order to let water in there. The bigger size has no way for water to get to the middle when it's full.
No, it's not likely to be detachment, I think you're jumping the gun without having all the information.

This is why I asked about the pump failure.

I've had a pump fail for a day or so, sometimes when you have a power glitch a pump won't restart correctly and the impeller will get stuck in a vibration cycle, especially when the water column it is pushing up starts to fall back through the pump while the pump kicks back on. I've had this occur. Sometimes the pump will "catch" and the flow will kick back in, leaving you with a mystery about what happened. So if the flow is lost for a day or two while the lights are running, the screen cooks, and the leftover dried out residue does not allow for algae to easily attach for some reason. IME when this "baking" of the screen happens, you have to soak the screen in vinegar and scrub it down to the canvas and start over with the maturing cycle.

The other way this can happen is a bit of a mystery effect that I refer to as "whiting". This is when you don't have a pump failure, but the algae will just turn stark white very quickly, like overnight (less than 24 hours). I've seen this happen repeatedly with one particular tank and I was not able to come up with an explanation - growth would start out OK, it wasn't over-lit (intensity and duration were not extreme) but a few days in (with just "whispy" green growth, and usually after a harvest, so not thick and light-blocking) the growth would just turn white.

My only fallback was that there might be a particular nutrient level that drops and causes a full inhibition of production, such that the incoming light cannot be adsorbed and the result was a cascading failure of algae cells. Just a theory that fits the facts, but this is so infrequent of an occurrence that I haven't ever been able to nail it down.

@sensei let me know which of the 2 scenarios seems to make sense. Also did anything else happen in this time period? Storms? General power loss? Have nutrients dropped in the system significantly over time?

The last question there - if everything was hunky-dory for a long time and then this suddenly happened, that could also explain it. You may have hit a point where the intensity/duration of the scrubber lights were left alone while the "balance point" of the overall system dropped below that and you had the "whiting" cascade.


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Old 01/05/2018, 05:03 PM   #9906
sensei
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sensei View Post
I have a 2 ATS in my 600g system. a 4 and a 2 cube.
the growth in both has been more or less the same.
Yesterday cleaned both after last hasvest 14 days ago and to my surprice the 4 cube did not show any growth and the little algae attached to the screen was completelly White, what could have happened??

Thanks a lot
Quote:
Originally Posted by Floyd R Turbo View Post
No, it's not likely to be detachment, I think you're jumping the gun without having all the information.

This is why I asked about the pump failure.

I've had a pump fail for a day or so, sometimes when you have a power glitch a pump won't restart correctly and the impeller will get stuck in a vibration cycle, especially when the water column it is pushing up starts to fall back through the pump while the pump kicks back on. I've had this occur. Sometimes the pump will "catch" and the flow will kick back in, leaving you with a mystery about what happened. So if the flow is lost for a day or two while the lights are running, the screen cooks, and the leftover dried out residue does not allow for algae to easily attach for some reason. IME when this "baking" of the screen happens, you have to soak the screen in vinegar and scrub it down to the canvas and start over with the maturing cycle.

The other way this can happen is a bit of a mystery effect that I refer to as "whiting". This is when you don't have a pump failure, but the algae will just turn stark white very quickly, like overnight (less than 24 hours). I've seen this happen repeatedly with one particular tank and I was not able to come up with an explanation - growth would start out OK, it wasn't over-lit (intensity and duration were not extreme) but a few days in (with just "whispy" green growth, and usually after a harvest, so not thick and light-blocking) the growth would just turn white.

My only fallback was that there might be a particular nutrient level that drops and causes a full inhibition of production, such that the incoming light cannot be adsorbed and the result was a cascading failure of algae cells. Just a theory that fits the facts, but this is so infrequent of an occurrence that I haven't ever been able to nail it down.

@sensei let me know which of the 2 scenarios seems to make sense. Also did anything else happen in this time period? Storms? General power loss? Have nutrients dropped in the system significantly over time?

The last question there - if everything was hunky-dory for a long time and then this suddenly happened, that could also explain it. You may have hit a point where the intensity/duration of the scrubber lights were left alone while the "balance point" of the overall system dropped below that and you had the "whiting" cascade.
I did not have a pump failure.
something did happened in the chemistry of the system, since I introduced around 12 acropora frags 1 month ago and in the last 15 days I have noticed some burned tips, and it happened to be at the same time that I had this whitening effect, but I did not know until I cleaned the screen last week. I have not been able to know why the burned tips since kh has been stable and it only happened in the new acros, not on the established acroporas.
can this whitening effect of the algae release some toxins in the water?
phosphate increased from 0.02 to 0.07 but I guess is becuase the 4 cube ATS was not working.

please let me know what you think

thanks


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Old 01/06/2018, 01:18 PM   #9907
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sensei View Post
I have a 2 ATS in my 600g system. a 4 and a 2 cube.
the growth in both has been more or less the same.
Yesterday cleaned both after last hasvest 14 days ago and to my surprice the 4 cube did not show any growth and the little algae attached to the screen was completelly White, what could have happened??

Thanks a lot
Its significant that only the 4 cube bleached.
Prior to the cleaning you say algae growth was more of less the same on both scrubber's screens ??? What was the difference between the two? Was there more than one type of algae on either or both screens? What was the algae(s) colors?
How old is (was) the 4 cube screen,,, had it matured?
How is the growth on the 2 cube screen right now?
What differences are there between the two scrubbers in regards to flow & lighting?


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Old 01/06/2018, 02:31 PM   #9908
Floyd R Turbo
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They're on different tanks, separate systems


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General Interest Forums --> Advanced Topics --> Algae Scrubber Basics (sticky)
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Old 01/06/2018, 02:53 PM   #9909
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Floyd R Turbo View Post
They're on different tanks, separate systems
Where did sensei state that?

quote - "I have a 2 ATS in my 600g system. a 4 and a 2 cube."

?


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Old 01/06/2018, 03:00 PM   #9910
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I have super inside information about who he got his scrubbers from


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Old 01/06/2018, 03:54 PM   #9911
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Ooooooh "super inside information!!"

Corey


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Old 01/06/2018, 05:02 PM   #9912
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Originally Posted by biecacka View Post
Ooooooh "super inside information!!"

Corey
Yeh, security clearence needed.


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Old 01/06/2018, 07:07 PM   #9913
Zoapro91
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My scrubber build with leds on 72 gal custom tank. Built the stand and everything myself. I am doing a floating reef tank I cut rock and siliconed it the the tank with ASI aquarium safe silIcone
Iím using a jabeo 15000 pump and bubble magnus skimmer. Still waiting to add coral
IMG_0688.jpgIMG_0681.jpg


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Old 01/07/2018, 10:39 AM   #9914
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twinfallz View Post
Its significant that only the 4 cube bleached.
Prior to the cleaning you say algae growth was more of less the same on both scrubber's screens ??? What was the difference between the two? Was there more than one type of algae on either or both screens? What was the algae(s) colors?
How old is (was) the 4 cube screen,,, had it matured?
How is the growth on the 2 cube screen right now?
What differences are there between the two scrubbers in regards to flow & lighting?
The 600g system was cycled in march 2016
in May 2016 I installed the first 2 cube ATS
in Oct 2016 I installed the other 4 cube ATS

Both are in same tank, different parts of the sump and they have a different sumergible pump. the design of both are exactly the same with the difference that one is bigger. both have same red leds, and both run the same light skedule. I tryed to match both so that one does not outcompete the other one.

they were both growing green hair algae.

here are the pictures of the harvest of both before the bleaching of the 4 cube

2 cube.jpg

4 cube.jpg

Thanks for your answer


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Old 01/07/2018, 10:42 AM   #9915
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Floyd R Turbo View Post
They're on different tanks, separate systems
Floyd both are in the same tank.

I have a 3rd 2 cube ATS that is in a different tank but the two mentioned are in same tank, same 600 g system


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Old 01/07/2018, 10:45 AM   #9916
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sensei View Post
I did not have a pump failure.
something did happened in the chemistry of the system, since I introduced around 12 acropora frags 1 month ago and in the last 15 days I have noticed some burned tips, and it happened to be at the same time that I had this whitening effect, but I did not know until I cleaned the screen last week. I have not been able to know why the burned tips since kh has been stable and it only happened in the new acros, not on the established acroporas.
can this whitening effect of the algae release some toxins in the water?
phosphate increased from 0.02 to 0.07 but I guess is becuase the 4 cube ATS was not working.

please let me know what you think

thanks
I am not sure if the bleaching of the 4 cube could release toxins?

thanks a lot for your answers.


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Old 01/07/2018, 02:40 PM   #9917
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Quote:
I would be using a horizontalfloating mesh (7 count canvas) with one side only lit from above, approx 10" away. It could possible have fine bubbles from wooden ayirstone, if helps at all
The "floating" screens I've seen people make have not worked; the screen needs to be up out of the water instead. Or, bubbles from beneath; but then the screen gets clogged with growth. That's why strings are better with bubbles. You could try making bigger holes in the screen though.

Quote:
I introduced around 12 acropora frags 1 month ago. phosphate increased from 0.02 to 0.07
Sounds like what I was saying. Acros are mostly rock, and any transfer of rock through the air kills a part of it, and causes die-off. If the 4-cube scrubber was already thick, the extra phosphate might have made growth thick enough to kill the roots and let go. If so, it should be back to normal soon. Larger screens just have less water access from the edges of the screen, so the middle dies sooner when thick.

Quote:
I am not sure if the bleaching of the 4 cube could release toxins
No, dying algae just put nutrients back into the water.

Quote:
My scrubber build with leds on 72 gal
No pic

Quote:
Can i use something like this Apollo Horticulture Purple Reign 6W MR16 LED https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01AAWXNLA..._FMMtAbQJSZWMS
This is is very focused; maybe too much so.

Quote:
Or this ABI 12W Deep Red 660nm https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01H2Y5U4M..._C9MtAb30A8M2C
Probably better and spread out.

Quote:
7W Desk Clip Plant Grow light. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01ID6A1MO..._V.MtAbAK2CBGB
Also focussed but ok for a small screen.

This one probably has good spread because there are no lenses.

Quote:
On a UAS as lighting?
For bubble upflows, these lights can be position and sized to the screen size, but will be 1-sided. To make them 2-sided, put a white plastic reflector behind the screen, angled to reflect light to the back of the screen as shown in the drawing. Or just use strings instead of a screen.


Attached Images
File Type: jpg reflector for upflow.jpg (86.4 KB, 24 views)
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Old 01/07/2018, 06:32 PM   #9918
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SantaMonica View Post
The "floating" screens I've seen people make have not worked; the screen needs to be up out of the water instead. Or, bubbles from beneath; but then the screen gets clogged with growth. That's why strings are better with bubbles. You could try making bigger holes in the screen though.



Sounds like what I was saying. Acros are mostly rock, and any transfer of rock through the air kills a part of it, and causes die-off. If the 4-cube scrubber was already thick, the extra phosphate might have made growth thick enough to kill the roots and let go. If so, it should be back to normal soon. Larger screens just have less water access from the edges of the screen, so the middle dies sooner when thick.



No, dying algae just put nutrients back into the water.



No pic



This is is very focused; maybe too much so.



Probably better and spread out.



Also focussed but ok for a small screen.



This one probably has good spread because there are no lenses.



For bubble upflows, these lights can be position and sized to the screen size, but will be 1-sided. To make them 2-sided, put a white plastic reflector behind the screen, angled to reflect light to the back of the screen as shown in the drawing. Or just use strings instead of a screen.
Thanks for the info!



Last edited by Pandagobyguy; 01/08/2018 at 12:16 AM.
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Old 01/08/2018, 04:50 AM   #9919
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ali1 View Post
Made my scrubber to a total size 19x11 with the LEDs on each side.

Harvesting every week:
Based on this scrubber, it looks like turf algae is now wrapping around my pvc and growing in the base of my sump. Is this a concern for nitrate build up?


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Old 01/08/2018, 09:35 AM   #9920
Floyd R Turbo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoapro91 View Post
My scrubber build with leds on 72 gal custom tank. Built the stand and everything myself. I am doing a floating reef tank I cut rock and siliconed it the the tank with ASI aquarium safe silIcone
Iím using a jabeo 15000 pump and bubble magnus skimmer. Still waiting to add coral
Attachment 385330Attachment 385331
Man, you've got some faith in silicone! I'm not saying you should worry, it could be just fine, but I'd be constantly worried about a piece of rock peeling away and falling & busting out the bottom of the tank
Quote:
Originally Posted by sensei View Post
Floyd both are in the same tank.

I have a 3rd 2 cube ATS that is in a different tank but the two mentioned are in same tank, same 600 g system
I spoke too soon, dammit!!


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--> POSTS #3251-64 (Basics), #5206 (Cleaning), #6884 (LEDs), #729
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Old 01/08/2018, 09:44 AM   #9921
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Floyd R Turbo View Post
Man, you've got some faith in silicone! I'm not saying you should worry, it could be just fine, but I'd be constantly worried about a piece of rock peeling away and falling & busting out the bottom of the tank



I spoke too soon, dammit!!


No way for that rock to come down with the asi silIcone I can put over 5lbs over the rock and it doesnít budge. I canít even cut that stuff once itís dry.


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Old 01/08/2018, 10:02 AM   #9922
Floyd R Turbo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SantaMonica View Post
Quote:
I introduced around 12 acropora frags 1 month ago. phosphate increased from 0.02 to 0.07
Sounds like what I was saying. Acros are mostly rock, and any transfer of rock through the air kills a part of it, and causes die-off. If the 4-cube scrubber was already thick, the extra phosphate might have made growth thick enough to kill the roots and let go. If so, it should be back to normal soon. Larger screens just have less water access from the edges of the screen, so the middle dies sooner when thick.
But that quote is not accurate, here is what he posted
Quote:
Originally Posted by sensei View Post
I did not have a pump failure.
something did happened in the chemistry of the system, since I introduced around 12 acropora frags 1 month ago and in the last 15 days I have noticed some burned tips, and it happened to be at the same time that I had this whitening effect, but I did not know until I cleaned the screen last week. I have not been able to know why the burned tips since kh has been stable and it only happened in the new acros, not on the established acroporas.
can this whitening effect of the algae release some toxins in the water?
phosphate increased from 0.02 to 0.07 but I guess is becuase the 4 cube ATS was not working.
So the "extra phosphate" would not likely have caused the scrubber growth to fail, otherwise the 2nd scrubber which is also on the same tank should have died off similarly. But that didn't happen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SantaMonica View Post
No, dying algae just put nutrients back into the water.
I'm not so sure about this. While it seems to make sense from a logical perspective that whatever nutrients the algae has adsorbed in the process of growing would be released when the algae dies, it's not likely in the same form. Also there is probably something else released when algae dies off, like sugars.

But the rise in phosphates is probably a combination of the filtering being less prevalent + the nutrient release from the algae dying. However I think the nutrient release is less of a factor since this seems to have happened shortly after cleaning...did I get that last part right?

So the timeline is:

12/3/17 added acro frags
12/19/17 = Day 0 - cleaned scrubber, normal looking harvest
1/2/18 = Day 14 - Noticed scrubber is white

Now, another piece of info (posted 1/3):
Quote:
Yesterday cleaned both after last hasvest 14 days ago and to my surprice the 4 cube did not show any growth and the little algae attached to the screen was completelly White, what could have happened??
What this tells me is that right after you cleaned the screen, something happened that caused whatever growth you have to stop growing and die off, and it stayed that way for the 14 day period. So this would mean likely very little nutrient release since there was very little algae.

Is the growth on the L2 just fine? Normal looking harvest?

If so, this just seems to point to an issue with the settings on the L4. A temporary pump failure would make the most sense. What you want to look for as evidence to indicate this is the presence of white encrustation on the screen, stuff that looks almost "baked on". If this happened for a few days right after you harvested, but then the water kicked back on, it would still be white and crusty/hard.

Tell me about your pump controls - do you run the scrubber pumps off of a controller? Or do you manually plug/unplug them? If on a controller, is it possible that you didn't re-start the pump after cleaning, but the controller kicked it back on automatically a day later as part of a fallback mode?

Tell me about the settings on the L4 and L2 - how many hours/day are the lights on? What intensity are they both at?


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Algae Scrubber Basics!!! GOOGLE "algaescrubber zoho"
General Interest Forums --> Advanced Topics --> Algae Scrubber Basics (sticky)
--> POSTS #3251-64 (Basics), #5206 (Cleaning), #6884 (LEDs), #729
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Old 01/08/2018, 10:41 AM   #9923
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Santa Monica Hogx Scrubber review

I have had a lot of good luck with the Santa Monica HOG1.3X. It fits perfect in my sump area. It's been running for about 2 months and I have ZERO algae in my display and a ton of it in the Scrubber. Then if you ever upgrade you can just add another one.


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Old 01/08/2018, 03:48 PM   #9924
Twinfallz
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Originally Posted by sensei View Post
The 600g system was cycled in march 2016
in May 2016 I installed the first 2 cube ATS
in Oct 2016 I installed the other 4 cube ATS

Both are in same tank, different parts of the sump and they have a different sumergible pump. the design of both are exactly the same with the difference that one is bigger. both have same red leds, and both run the same light skedule. I tryed to match both so that one does not outcompete the other one.

they were both growing green hair algae.

here are the pictures of the harvest of both before the bleaching of the 4 cube

Attachment 385366

Attachment 385367

Thanks for your answer
For what its worth, I've put some green scrubber algae in a zip lock bag, for a month, in darkness, and it stayed green.
I've also scraped off the excess algae on a screen I've decommissioned, left the screen sitting in the sunlight, dry, and the remaining base algae turned a pale creamy white colour - dead, after about seven days. When i've wet it, it turned soft and crumbly.

An illuminated dry screen seems the only logical answer.


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Old 01/09/2018, 01:04 PM   #9925
sensei
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twinfallz View Post
For what its worth, I've put some green scrubber algae in a zip lock bag, for a month, in darkness, and it stayed green.
I've also scraped off the excess algae on a screen I've decommissioned, left the screen sitting in the sunlight, dry, and the remaining base algae turned a pale creamy white colour - dead, after about seven days. When i've wet it, it turned soft and crumbly.

An illuminated dry screen seems the only logical answer.
Yes, it is the only logical explanation.
Thanks


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